Product marketers aren't marketers—they're architects while everyone else chooses to paint walls (no shade). Hattie the PMM shares her brutal journey from respected CEO to crying on calls as a micromanaged IC, revealing why PMM respect disappeared the moment she hit corporate payroll. We dive deep into the "becoming vs. doing" philosophy, why your money-limiting beliefs might be killing your consultancy, and how to extract value from companies while they extract from you. Raw, real, and revolutionary—this episode might make you quit your job or finally charge what you're worth. More from this convo...<ul><li>From BBC/Wall Street Journal features to being treated like a child at work </li><li>Why PMMs are architects while marketers are just painting pretty walls </li><li>The day respect disappeared: "The minute my name hit their payroll" </li><li>How to build your $100K consultancy while keeping your day job </li><li>Why companies pay consultants 3X more for the same PMM work </li><li>The "becoming vs. doing" trap that keeps PMMs broke </li><li>Money limiting beliefs: Why you won't send the invoice</li><li>The strategic visibility system that changes everything </li><li>Why your framework knowledge means nothing without becoming </li><li>How to extract value from companies that don't value you</li></ul> Timestamps 00:00 Introduction &amp; The Cher of Product Marketing02:00 The Big Question: Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers?02:30 The Architect vs. Interior Decorator Analogy03:00 PMMs as Foundation Builders04:00 From CEO to IC: The Respect Vanishing Act05:00 BBC, Wall Street Journal, Cambridge University Days06:00 Corporate America Reality Check07:00 Micromanagement &amp; Workplace Bullying08:00 Childhood Trauma &amp; Workplace Triggers09:00 The Crying on Calls Era11:00 Why PMM Respect Doesn't Exist13:00 The Consultant Premium Phenomenon15:00 Building Your Empire While Employed17:00 The Strategic Visibility System19:00 Rapid Fire Round Begins21:00 Worst Career Advice23:00 Budget Allocation Debates25:00 Personal Branding Strategy27:00 AI Impact on PMM29:00 The Newsletter Game31:00 Career Milestones &amp; Roadblocks33:00 Why Companies Pay Consultants More35:00 Extract Value While They Extract From You37:00 Building Frameworks on Company Time39:00 The April Dunford Model41:00 Roadblocks vs. Roadmaps43:00 The Becoming vs. Doing Philosophy45:00 Deep Coaching Approach47:00 Why Information Isn't Enough49:00 The Workout Analogy50:00 Money Limiting Beliefs51:00 Invoice Avoidance Psychology52:00 The Profitable PMM Challenge53:00Closing&amp;WheretoFindHattie Hosted on Ausha. See <a href="https://ausha.co/privacy-policy">ausha.co/privacy-policy</a> for more information.

<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;Product marketers aren't marketers—they're architects while everyone else chooses to paint walls (no shade). Hattie the PMM shares her brutal journey from respected CEO to crying on calls as a micromanaged IC, revealing why PMM respect disappeared the moment she hit corporate payroll. We dive deep into the "becoming vs. doing" philosophy, why your money-limiting beliefs might be killing your consultancy, and how to extract value from companies while they extract from you. Raw, real, and revolutionary—this episode might make you quit your job or finally charge what you're worth.&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;em&gt;More from this convo...&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;From BBC/Wall Street Journal features to being treated like a child at work &lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;Why PMMs are architects while marketers are just painting pretty walls &lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;The day respect disappeared: "The minute my name hit their payroll" &lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;How to build your $100K consultancy while keeping your day job &lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;Why companies pay consultants 3X more for the same PMM work &lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;The "becoming vs. doing" trap that keeps PMMs broke &lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;Money limiting beliefs: Why you won't send the invoice&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;The strategic visibility system that changes everything &lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;Why your framework knowledge means nothing without becoming &lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;How to extract value from companies that don't value you&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;b&gt;Timestamps &lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;00:00 Introduction &amp;amp; The Cher of Product Marketing&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;02:00 The Big Question: Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers?&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;02:30 The Architect vs. Interior Decorator Analogy&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;03:00 PMMs as Foundation Builders&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;04:00 From CEO to IC: The Respect Vanishing Act&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;05:00 BBC, Wall Street Journal, Cambridge University Days&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;06:00 Corporate America Reality Check&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;07:00 Micromanagement &amp;amp; Workplace Bullying&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;08:00 Childhood Trauma &amp;amp; Workplace Triggers&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;09:00 The Crying on Calls Era&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;11:00 Why PMM Respect Doesn't Exist&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;13:00 The Consultant Premium Phenomenon&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;15:00 Building Your Empire While Employed&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;17:00 The Strategic Visibility System&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;19:00 Rapid Fire Round Begins&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;21:00 Worst Career Advice&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;23:00 Budget Allocation Debates&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;25:00 Personal Branding Strategy&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;27:00 AI Impact on PMM&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;29:00 The Newsletter Game&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;31:00 Career Milestones &amp;amp; Roadblocks&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;33:00 Why Companies Pay Consultants More&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;35:00 Extract Value While They Extract From You&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;37:00 Building Frameworks on Company Time&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;39:00 The April Dunford Model&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;41:00 Roadblocks vs. Roadmaps&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;43:00 The Becoming vs. Doing Philosophy&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;45:00 Deep Coaching Approach&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;47:00 Why Information Isn't Enough&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;49:00 The Workout Analogy&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;50:00 Money Limiting Beliefs&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;51:00 Invoice Avoidance Psychology&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;52:00 The Profitable PMM Challenge&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;53:00Closing&amp;amp;WheretoFindHattie&lt;/em&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;p&gt;Hosted on Ausha. See &lt;a href="https://ausha.co/privacy-policy"&gt;ausha.co/privacy-policy&lt;/a&gt; for more information.&lt;/p&gt;</description>


Product marketers aren't marketers—they're architects while everyone else chooses to paint walls (no shade). Hattie the PMM shares her brutal journey from respected CEO to crying on calls as a micromanaged IC, revealing why PMM respect disappeared the...

No salary is worth your soul with Hattie the PMM

Product marketing is marketing at it's purest form (not our words) —but only if we redefine what marketing actually means. Garrett Jestice, founder of Prelude, explains why tech companies get marketing backwards, how AI shifts risk from building to selling, and why messy go-to-market isn't a channel problem—it's a foundational problem. We dive into the CPG vs. SaaS marketing divide, why founders don't get PMM, and the brutal truth about connecting your work to revenue. Spoiler: If you can't explain who you're selling to and why, more ads won't save you. More from this convo... <ul><li>Why product marketers are the "purest form of marketing" (but tech ruined it) • </li><li>The CPG lesson that every SaaS company needs to learn • </li><li>How AI is making "can we build it?" irrelevant • </li><li>Why your messy GTM isn't a lead problem—it's a foundation problem • </li><li>The Cheerios brand manager approach to product marketing • </li><li>How tech companies segmented marketing into irrelevance • </li><li>The brutal truth about connecting PMM work to revenue • Why early-stage companies are PMM paradise • </li><li>The "small wins" strategy for proving PMM value • How to sell yourself internally (when founders don't get it) • </li><li>Why more ads won't fix your broken positioning</li></ul> Timestamps 00:00 Introduction &amp; First Redheaded Guest01:00 Guest Introduction: Garrett Jestice, Prelude Founder02:00 The Big Question: Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers?02:30 "Purest Form of Marketers" But Not Today's Definition03:00 The CPG Background: Cheerios at General Mills04:00 Brand Managers as General Managers04:30 CPG vs. Tech: Where the Real Risk Lives05:00 AI Shifting Risk from Building to Selling06:00 The Minneapolis Connection07:00 Physical Products vs. Digital "Ones and Zeros"09:00 The Segmentation Problem in Tech Marketing11:00 Product Team vs. Marketing Team Divide13:00 Why Founders Don't Understand PMM15:00 The Language Barrier with Engineering Founders17:00 Building in Public &amp; Personal Branding19:00 Rapid Fire Round Begins21:00 Worst Marketing Advice Stories23:00 Budget Allocation Debates25:00 The AI Hype Cycle Discussion27:00 Personal Branding for PMMs29:00 The Newsletter Renaissance31:00 SEO in the AI Age33:00 Career Journey: CPG to SaaS35:00 Founding Prelude Agency37:00 Early-Stage Company Focus39:00 The Foundation Problem in GTM41:00 Working with Founders Who Don't Get It43:00 Getting Wins in Their Language (Revenue)45:00 Connecting PMM Work to Revenue47:00 Small Wins Strategy49:00 Messy GTM Execution Fix50:00 Channels vs. Foundations51:00 How to Sell Consulting Internally52:00 Closing &amp; Where to Find Garrett Hosted on Ausha. See <a href="https://ausha.co/privacy-policy">ausha.co/privacy-policy</a> for more information.

<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;Product marketing is marketing at it's purest form (not our words) —but only if we redefine what marketing actually means. Garrett Jestice, founder of Prelude, explains why tech companies get marketing backwards, how AI shifts risk from building to selling, and why messy go-to-market isn't a channel problem—it's a foundational problem. We dive into the CPG vs. SaaS marketing divide, why founders don't get PMM, and the brutal truth about connecting your work to revenue. Spoiler: If you can't explain who you're selling to and why, more ads won't save you.&lt;/em&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;em&gt;More from this convo...&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;Why product marketers are the "purest form of marketing" (but tech ruined it) • &lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;The CPG lesson that every SaaS company needs to learn • &lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;How AI is making "can we build it?" irrelevant • &lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;Why your messy GTM isn't a lead problem—it's a foundation problem • &lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;The Cheerios brand manager approach to product marketing • &lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;How tech companies segmented marketing into irrelevance • &lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;The brutal truth about connecting PMM work to revenue • Why early-stage companies are PMM paradise • &lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;The "small wins" strategy for proving PMM value • How to sell yourself internally (when founders don't get it) • &lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;Why more ads won't fix your broken positioning&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;em&gt;Timestamps &lt;/em&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;00:00 Introduction &amp;amp; First Redheaded Guest&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;01:00 Guest Introduction: Garrett Jestice, Prelude Founder&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;02:00 The Big Question: Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers?&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;02:30 "Purest Form of Marketers" But Not Today's Definition&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;03:00 The CPG Background: Cheerios at General Mills&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;04:00 Brand Managers as General Managers&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;04:30 CPG vs. Tech: Where the Real Risk Lives&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;05:00 AI Shifting Risk from Building to Selling&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;06:00 The Minneapolis Connection&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;07:00 Physical Products vs. Digital "Ones and Zeros"&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;09:00 The Segmentation Problem in Tech Marketing&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;11:00 Product Team vs. Marketing Team Divide&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;13:00 Why Founders Don't Understand PMM&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;15:00 The Language Barrier with Engineering Founders&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;17:00 Building in Public &amp;amp; Personal Branding&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;19:00 Rapid Fire Round Begins&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;21:00 Worst Marketing Advice Stories&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;23:00 Budget Allocation Debates&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;25:00 The AI Hype Cycle Discussion&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;27:00 Personal Branding for PMMs&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;29:00 The Newsletter Renaissance&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;31:00 SEO in the AI Age&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;33:00 Career Journey: CPG to SaaS&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;35:00 Founding Prelude Agency&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;37:00 Early-Stage Company Focus&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;39:00 The Foundation Problem in GTM&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;41:00 Working with Founders Who Don't Get It&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;43:00 Getting Wins in Their Language (Revenue)&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;45:00 Connecting PMM Work to Revenue&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;47:00 Small Wins Strategy&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;49:00 Messy GTM Execution Fix&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;50:00 Channels vs. Foundations&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;51:00 How to Sell Consulting Internally&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;52:00 Closing &amp;amp; Where to Find Garrett&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;p&gt;Hosted on Ausha. See &lt;a href="https://ausha.co/privacy-policy"&gt;ausha.co/privacy-policy&lt;/a&gt; for more information.&lt;/p&gt;</description>


Product marketing is marketing at it's purest form (not our words) —but only if we redefine what marketing actually means. Garrett Jestice, founder of Prelude, explains why tech companies get marketing backwards, how AI shifts risk from building to se...

Why Product Marketing only lives (and dies) in B2B tech with Garrett Jestice

Your PMM credibility is at stake, CRO demands more leads, without knowing what's winning revenue. Sounds familiar? Drew Giovannoli, founder of Buried Wins, calls it the 'sales deck monkey'. Don't get him wrong, as he believes PMMs should help sellers win yet, without clear buyer insights on what's winning, how can we, PMMs? That's why Drew bobbed and weaved his own consultancy focused on win-loss analysis. In this momma knock-you-out (respectfully) episode, we uncover why win-loss is more than 'tracking win rates and ignoring loss complaints'. If you ever had your back against revenue dashboard, you already know why full win-loss analysis drives more conversions than low-signal white paper leads. More on what we cover... • Why PMMs without win-loss analysis are just "sales deck monkeys" • The shocking truth: Your entire company is already in marketing (they just don't know it) • How a layoff and two weeks notice led to a thriving agency • Why generalized PMM consulting is dead (and what to do instead) • The brutal first 6 months: Zero clients except former bosses • Win-loss as the "canary in the coal mine" for positioning problems • Why being a founder means being a salesperson first, PMM second • The annual planning cycle hack that finally brought clients • How to replace yourself as the most expensive consultant • The "choose your hard" philosophy of PMM entrepreneurship • Why nothing matters until someone pays you (repeatedly) Hosted on Ausha. See <a href="https://ausha.co/privacy-policy">ausha.co/privacy-policy</a> for more information.

<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;Your PMM credibility is at stake, CRO demands more leads, without knowing what's winning revenue. Sounds familiar? &lt;/em&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;em&gt;Drew Giovannoli, founder of Buried Wins, calls it the 'sales deck monkey'. Don't get him wrong, as he believes PMMs should help sellers win yet, without clear buyer insights on what's winning, how can we, PMMs? That's why Drew bobbed and weaved his own consultancy focused on win-loss analysis. &lt;/em&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;em&gt;In this momma knock-you-out (respectfully) episode, we uncover why win-loss is more than 'tracking win rates and ignoring loss complaints'. If you ever had your back against revenue dashboard, you already know why full win-loss analysis drives more conversions than low-signal white paper leads. &lt;/em&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;em&gt;More on what we cover...&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;em&gt;• Why PMMs without win-loss analysis are just "sales deck monkeys" &lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;• The shocking truth: Your entire company is already in marketing (they just don't know it) &lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;• How a layoff and two weeks notice led to a thriving agency &lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;• Why generalized PMM consulting is dead (and what to do instead) &lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;• The brutal first 6 months: Zero clients except former bosses &lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;• Win-loss as the "canary in the coal mine" for positioning problems &lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;• Why being a founder means being a salesperson first, PMM second &lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;• The annual planning cycle hack that finally brought clients &lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;• How to replace yourself as the most expensive consultant &lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;• The "choose your hard" philosophy of PMM entrepreneurship &lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;• Why nothing matters until someone pays you (repeatedly)&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;p&gt;Hosted on Ausha. See &lt;a href="https://ausha.co/privacy-policy"&gt;ausha.co/privacy-policy&lt;/a&gt; for more information.&lt;/p&gt;</description>


Your PMM credibility is at stake, CRO demands more leads, without knowing what's winning revenue. Sounds familiar? 

Drew Giovannoli, founder of Buried Wins, calls it the 'sales deck monkey'. Don't get him wrong, as he believes PMMs should help seller...

Are you the Sales B*tch or the trusted PMM? w/ Drew Giovannoli

Product marketers aren't marketers—they're non-conformist rebels! Amanda Groves, VP of PMM at Enable, who rocketed from IC to VP in just 2 years explains why. She breaks down why PMMs need to be trolls under bridges, why slowing down actually speeds you up, and how painting and ultra marathons make her a better leader. We dive into the PMM-to-CMO pipeline, fighting AI Mad Libs, and why the best product marketers challenge everything with intention. Warning: This episode might make you quit conforming and start rebelling. What to gather in this convo: • How to go from IC to VP of PMM in just 2 years (hint: be a rebel) • Why product marketers should be "trolls under bridges" • The slow-down-to-speed-up philosophy that's breaking Silicon Valley • What ultra marathons teach you about product marketing leadership • Why painting on the side makes you a better PMM leader • The "controllables vs. uncontrollables" framework that saves careers • How to fight the AI Mad Lib epidemic in your messaging • Why more PMMs should be gunning for CMO (and how to get there) • The non-conformist hiring strategy that builds killer teams • What PMM leaders are fighting for that ICs never see • The disagree-and-commit principle that changes everything Timestamps 00:00 Introduction &amp; Amanda's Weird LinkedIn Journey01:00 Guest Introduction: IC to VP in 2 Years02:00 The Big Question: Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers?02:30 "We Are More Than Marketers" - The Non-Conformist Theory04:00 What Makes a Non-Conformist PMM05:00 Rebels Who Pull Invisible Threads06:00 The Troll Under the Bridge Analogy07:00 Slow Down to Speed Up Philosophy09:00 Building PMM Foundations Without Crumbling11:00 Career Trajectory: The Non-Linear Path13:00 From Content to Demand Gen to PMM15:00 Why Product Marketing Was "The Most Fun"17:00 Current Role at Enable &amp; Team Building19:00 Ultra Marathons &amp; Mental Fitness21:00 The Painting Practice &amp; Creative Outlets23:00 Rapid Fire Round Begins24:00 Worst Marketing Advice Ever Received26:00 Budget Allocation Debates28:00 The AI Mad Lib Problem30:00 Customer Advisory Boards Discussion32:00 PMM Career Paths &amp; Fractional Trends34:00 The PMM to CMO Pipeline37:00 Product-Led Growth Companies as PMM Paradise39:00Disagree and Commit Principle Hosted on Ausha. See <a href="https://ausha.co/privacy-policy">ausha.co/privacy-policy</a> for more information.

<description>&lt;p&gt;Product marketers aren't marketers—they're non-conformist rebels! Amanda Groves, VP of PMM at Enable, who rocketed from IC to VP in just 2 years explains why. She breaks down why PMMs need to be trolls under bridges, why slowing down actually speeds you up, and how painting and ultra marathons make her a better leader. We dive into the PMM-to-CMO pipeline, fighting AI Mad Libs, and why the best product marketers challenge everything with intention. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Warning: This episode might make you quit conforming and start rebelling.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;b&gt;What to gather in this convo: &lt;/b&gt;&lt;br&gt;• How to go from IC to VP of PMM in just 2 years (hint: be a rebel) &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;• Why product marketers should be "trolls under bridges" &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;• The slow-down-to-speed-up philosophy that's breaking Silicon Valley &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;• What ultra marathons teach you about product marketing leadership &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;• Why painting on the side makes you a better PMM leader &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;• The "controllables vs. uncontrollables" framework that saves careers &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;• How to fight the AI Mad Lib epidemic in your messaging &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;• Why more PMMs should be gunning for CMO (and how to get there) &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;• The non-conformist hiring strategy that builds killer teams &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;• What PMM leaders are fighting for that ICs never see &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;• The disagree-and-commit principle that changes everything&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;b&gt;Timestamps &lt;/b&gt;&lt;br&gt;00:00 Introduction &amp;amp; Amanda's Weird LinkedIn Journey&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;01:00 Guest Introduction: IC to VP in 2 Years&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;02:00 The Big Question: Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;02:30 "We Are More Than Marketers" - The Non-Conformist Theory&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;04:00 What Makes a Non-Conformist PMM&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;05:00 Rebels Who Pull Invisible Threads&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;06:00 The Troll Under the Bridge Analogy&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;07:00 Slow Down to Speed Up Philosophy&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;09:00 Building PMM Foundations Without Crumbling&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;11:00 Career Trajectory: The Non-Linear Path&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;13:00 From Content to Demand Gen to PMM&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;15:00 Why Product Marketing Was "The Most Fun"&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;17:00 Current Role at Enable &amp;amp; Team Building&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;19:00 Ultra Marathons &amp;amp; Mental Fitness&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;21:00 The Painting Practice &amp;amp; Creative Outlets&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;23:00 Rapid Fire Round Begins&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;24:00 Worst Marketing Advice Ever Received&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;26:00 Budget Allocation Debates&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;28:00 The AI Mad Lib Problem&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;30:00 Customer Advisory Boards Discussion&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;32:00 PMM Career Paths &amp;amp; Fractional Trends&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;34:00 The PMM to CMO Pipeline&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;37:00 Product-Led Growth Companies as PMM Paradise&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;39:00Disagree and Commit Principle&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;p&gt;Hosted on Ausha. See &lt;a href="https://ausha.co/privacy-policy"&gt;ausha.co/privacy-policy&lt;/a&gt; for more information.&lt;/p&gt;</description>


Product marketers aren't marketers—they're non-conformist rebels! Amanda Groves, VP of PMM at Enable, who rocketed from IC to VP in just 2 years explains why. She breaks down why PMMs need to be trolls under bridges, why slowing down actually speeds y...

How curiosity didn't kill the cat w/ Amanda Groves

Marketers have become glorified executors, and, Nick Power isn't here to sugarcoat it. The lowercase LinkedIn legend– who also leads marketing at Noun Project– joins us to explain why your strategy docs are bullshit, why he'd delete his digital presence tomorrow, and how running five miles beats any marketing framework. We talk anti-billionaire content, why brevity is the ultimate flex in marketing, and how the entire tech industry turned marketing into a commodity. Warning: This episode might make you quit your job or completely rethink your career—either way, you're welcome. What we cover: • Why Nick Power thinks 90% of marketers aren't actually marketing anymore • The shocking reason a LinkedIn influencer would delete his entire digital presence • How to fit an entire strategy into ONE SENTENCE (seriously) • Why your positioning docs are expensive PDFs nobody reads • The anti-billionaire marketing philosophy that's actually about mental health • What happens when you've never worked with a product marketer (spoiler: you survive) • The grind culture lie that's killing your creativity • Why running 5 miles beats any marketing framework • How to give readers "the gift of surprise" in every post • The real reason marketing became a commodity in tech Timestamps 01:00 Hot Guest Introduction &amp; Lower Case Legend02:00 The Big Question: Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers?02:22 Nick's Controversial Take: "Very Few Marketers Are Marketers"03:00 The System Problem: Executors vs. Strategists04:00 Marketing as a Commoditized Craft05:00 Nick's Background: CPG to B2B Tech06:00 Rapid Fire Round Begins: Digital Presence vs. Family07:00 The Mixed Bag of Online Attention08:30 Zoom Calls vs. Person Captivity10:00 Content Strategy: Wake Up and Write11:30 LinkedIn Trolling &amp; Negative Engagement13:00 Quitting Social Media Discussion15:00 The State of Marketing Salaries17:30 Marketing Budget Allocation Debate19:00 Personal Branding vs. Company Branding21:00 The Death of Blogging23:00 Keyword Strategy &amp; SEO Reality Check25:00 Marketing Advice You'd Give Your Younger Self27:00 Worst Marketing Experience Stories29:00 Firing Yourself from Marketing31:00 Career Identity Crisis Discussion33:00 Breaking Down Nick's Content Strategy35:00 The Art of Brevity: One-Sentence Philosophy36:00 Anti-Billionaire Content Explained37:00 Late-Stage Capitalism &amp; Grind Culture Critique38:00 Coping Mechanisms: Running, Music, Kids39:00 From Surf to Run: Finding Flow State40:00 Mental Health in Marketing41:00 Closing &amp; Noun Project Shoutout Hosted on Ausha. See <a href="https://ausha.co/privacy-policy">ausha.co/privacy-policy</a> for more information.

<description>&lt;p&gt;Marketers have become glorified executors, and, Nick Power isn't here to sugarcoat it. The lowercase LinkedIn legend– who also leads marketing at Noun Project– joins us to explain why your strategy docs are bullshit, why he'd delete his digital presence tomorrow, and how running five miles beats any marketing framework. We talk anti-billionaire content, why brevity is the ultimate flex in marketing, and how the entire tech industry turned marketing into a commodity. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Warning: This episode might make you quit your job or completely rethink your career—either way, you're welcome.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;b&gt;What we cover: &lt;/b&gt;&lt;br&gt;• Why Nick Power thinks 90% of marketers aren't actually marketing anymore &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;• The shocking reason a LinkedIn influencer would delete his entire digital presence &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;• How to fit an entire strategy into ONE SENTENCE (seriously) &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;• Why your positioning docs are expensive PDFs nobody reads &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;• The anti-billionaire marketing philosophy that's actually about mental health &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;• What happens when you've never worked with a product marketer (spoiler: you survive) &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;• The grind culture lie that's killing your creativity &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;• Why running 5 miles beats any marketing framework • How to give readers "the gift of surprise" in every post &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;• The real reason marketing became a commodity in tech&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;b&gt;Timestamps &lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;01:00 Hot Guest Introduction &amp;amp; Lower Case Legend&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;02:00 The Big Question: Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;02:22 Nick's Controversial Take: "Very Few Marketers Are Marketers"&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;03:00 The System Problem: Executors vs. Strategists&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;04:00 Marketing as a Commoditized Craft&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;05:00 Nick's Background: CPG to B2B Tech&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;06:00 Rapid Fire Round Begins: Digital Presence vs. Family&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;07:00 The Mixed Bag of Online Attention&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;08:30 Zoom Calls vs. Person Captivity&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;10:00 Content Strategy: Wake Up and Write&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;11:30 LinkedIn Trolling &amp;amp; Negative Engagement&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;13:00 Quitting Social Media Discussion&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;15:00 The State of Marketing Salaries&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;17:30 Marketing Budget Allocation Debate&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;19:00 Personal Branding vs. Company Branding&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;21:00 The Death of Blogging&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;23:00 Keyword Strategy &amp;amp; SEO Reality Check&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;25:00 Marketing Advice You'd Give Your Younger Self&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;27:00 Worst Marketing Experience Stories&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;29:00 Firing Yourself from Marketing&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;31:00 Career Identity Crisis Discussion&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;33:00 Breaking Down Nick's Content Strategy&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;35:00 The Art of Brevity: One-Sentence Philosophy&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;36:00 Anti-Billionaire Content Explained&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;37:00 Late-Stage Capitalism &amp;amp; Grind Culture Critique&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;38:00 Coping Mechanisms: Running, Music, Kids&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;39:00 From Surf to Run: Finding Flow State&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;40:00 Mental Health in Marketing&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;41:00 Closing &amp;amp; Noun Project Shoutout&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;p&gt;Hosted on Ausha. See &lt;a href="https://ausha.co/privacy-policy"&gt;ausha.co/privacy-policy&lt;/a&gt; for more information.&lt;/p&gt;</description>


Marketers have become glorified executors, and, Nick Power isn't here to sugarcoat it. The lowercase LinkedIn legend– who also leads marketing at Noun Project– joins us to explain why your strategy docs are bullshit, why he'd delete his digital presen...

Being human is your coolest feature w/ Nick Power

B2B product marketers in SaaS businesses are feeling misunderstood. Struggling to position what they do internally. Colleagues not having one clear idea what they do either.

What if there was a better way? This is We're Not Marketers.

The new podcast for SaaSy B2B product marketers who want CEO buy-in on what they do. Get the weekly masterclass without the inflated tuition and entry-level requirements, just to get your foot in the door.

Stop being overlooked and start listening.

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

We're Not Marketers

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