“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards Build High Performing Companies
“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards Build High Performing Companies

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards Build High Performing Companies

HR Heretics

Overview
Episodes

Details

After a decade+ of “blitz-scaling” companies, HR, talent, and People leaders now face an uncertain economy that has already seen big booms and busts. What will it take to construct the next generation of incredible businesses – and where can people leaders have the most business impact?     Hosts Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich have been through it all, the highs and the lows – IPOs, layoffs, executive turnover, board meetings, culture changes, and more. With a lineup of industry vets and experts, Nolan and Kelli break down the nitty-gritty details, trade offs, and dynamics of constructing high performing companies. Through unfiltered conversations that can only happen between seasoned practitioners – Kelli and Nolan dive deep into the kind of leadership-level strategy that often happens behind closed doors. This show is for those who are ready to ditch conventional wisdom and figure out from first principles what works for their culture, business model, and industry, with the goal of building a resilient and enduring company. You’ll come away with real guidance for seeing around corners, building enduring companies, and carving out an impactful career – plus a newly-honed bullshit detector. Topics frequently touched on in this season include: building high performing cultures, compensation negotiation, performance reviews, company design, equity, M&As, recruiting the best talent, and how to manage your own psychology as a people leader.

hrheretics.substack.com

Recent Episodes

Stop Saying You're a Business Partner (And Actually Be One) with Jeff Diana
DEC 6, 2024
Stop Saying You're a Business Partner (And Actually Be One) with Jeff Diana
<p>Tired of hearing "HR needs to be more business-focused" without any real direction? </p><p>In this episode, Kelli and Nolan cut through the noise with actionable insights from veteran CPO Jeff Diana. Learn why joining sales calls, understanding your P&L, and getting your hands dirty in customer support might be your secret weapons. </p><p>Discover how top HR leaders transformed from "the team in the corner" to invaluable business partners – and how you can, too.</p><p>*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected]</p><p>For coaching and advising inquire at</p><p>https://kellidragovich.com/</p><p>HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.</p><p>—</p><p>📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess">https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess</a></p><p>Support HR Heretics Sponsor:</p><p><strong>Metaview</strong> is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.metaview.ai/heretics">https://www.metaview.ai/heretics</a></p><p>KEEP UP WITH JEFF, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN</p><p>Jeff: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-diana-a1906212/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-diana-a1906212/</a></p><p>Nolan: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/</a></p><p>Kelli: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/</a></p><p>—</p><p>TIMESTAMPS:</p><p>(00:00) Intro</p><p>(01:14) HR is a Business Function: Action vs. Rhetoric</p><p>(02:09) The Business-First Approach Do's and Don'ts</p><p>(04:19) Fostering a Deeper Understanding of the Business</p><p>(06:01) Product Certification and Experiential Learning</p><p>(06:57) Understanding a Founder's Emotional Investment (even if it seems irrational)</p><p>(08:52) Knowing the Numbers</p><p>(13:14) Strategic Time Investment and Knowledge Acquisition</p><p>(15:56) Including Customer Success in Knowledge Gathering</p><p>(16:18) Sponsor: Metaview</p><p>(17:38) Internal Reviews and Cross-Functional Collaboration</p><p>(19:01) Internal Best Practices and Efficiency</p><p>(20:47) Growing Fluidity Between HR and other Business Functions</p><p>(21:14) Wrap</p><p></p> <br/><br/>This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit <a href="https://hrheretics.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&#38;utm_campaign=CTA_1">hrheretics.substack.com</a>
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24 MIN
C-Suite Budget Scrutiny? with Colleen McCreary
DEC 3, 2024
C-Suite Budget Scrutiny? with Colleen McCreary
<p>Ever wonder what happens when HR leaders get real about C-suite scrutiny? </p><p>Join Kelli, Nolan and friend of the podcast, Colleen McCreary, as they spill the tea on transforming those dreaded "show me the numbers" moments into power moves. Turns out, the secret sauce isn't hiding from spreadsheets—it's owning them with style.</p><p>*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected]</p><p>For coaching and advising inquire at <a target="_blank" href="https://kellidragovich.com/">https://kellidragovich.com/</a></p><p>HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.</p><p>—</p><p>📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess">https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess</a></p><p>Support HR Heretics Sponsor:</p><p><strong>Metaview</strong> is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.metaview.ai/heretics">https://www.metaview.ai/heretics</a></p><p>KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN</p><p>Nolan: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/</a></p><p>Kelli: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/</a></p><p>—</p><p>TIMESTAMPS:</p><p>(00:00) Intro</p><p>(01:14) Increasing Scrutiny of HR budgets from CEOs, CFOs, and Board Members</p><p>(01:50) Stakeholder Management and Proactive Planning</p><p>(04:42) Assume Good Intent and Take Ownership</p><p>(06:35) Earned Trust and Common Experience</p><p>(08:05) Sponsor: Metaview</p><p>(09:12) New Roles and Re-establishing Credibility and the CFOs Perspective</p><p>(10:36) Advice and Next Steps</p><p>(12:07) Closing and Outro</p><p></p><p></p><p></p> <br/><br/>This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit <a href="https://hrheretics.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&#38;utm_campaign=CTA_1">hrheretics.substack.com</a>
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12 MIN
The 3AM People Leader: Donald Knight of Warner Brothers Discovery
NOV 26, 2024
The 3AM People Leader: Donald Knight of Warner Brothers Discovery
<p>From pioneering parental leave strategies to 3 AM workout sessions, Warner Bros Discovery's SVP of People Donald Knight reveals how vulnerability, authenticity, and physical discipline shape exceptional leadership. </p><p>Donald joins Kelli and Nolan in a candid conversation about evolving HR, squandered DEI opportunities, and building lasting relationships in hyper-growth environments.</p><p></p><p>*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected]</p><p>For coaching and advising inquire at <a target="_blank" href="https://kellidragovich.com/">https://kellidragovich.com/</a></p><p>HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.</p><p>—</p><p>📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess">https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess</a></p><p>Support HR Heretics Sponsor:</p><p><strong>Metaview</strong> is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.metaview.ai/heretics">https://www.metaview.ai/heretics</a></p><p><strong>RECOMMENDED PODCAST:</strong></p><p>🎙️ <strong>Unpack Pricing </strong>- Dive into the dark arts of SaaS pricing with Metronome CEO Scott Woody and tech leaders. Learn how strategic pricing drives explosive revenue growth in today's biggest companies like Snowflake, Cockroach Labs, Dropbox and more.</p><p>_</p><p><strong>KEEP UP WITH DIDIER, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN</strong></p><p>Donald: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/donaldfknight/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/donaldfknight/</a></p><p>Nolan: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/</a></p><p>Kelli: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/</a></p><p>—</p><p><strong>TIMESTAMPS:</strong></p><p>(00:00) Intro </p><p>(00:39) Donald's initial reluctance to join HR and his perspective shift </p><p>(02:32) Evolution of the HR profession </p><p>(04:06) Pushback against employee-centric HR practices </p><p>(07:22) The "war for talent" and its aftermath </p><p>(10:53) The focus on immutable traits in diversity initiatives </p><p>(14:05) Sponsor: Metaview </p><p>(15:17) Importance of company stances and differentiation </p><p>(19:15) Donald's paternity leave plan and its impact </p><p>(25:35) The recruiting process and its unexpected outcomes </p><p>(32:45) Donald's experience working with founders </p><p>(39:50) Donald's favorite interview questions and their rationale </p><p>(44:30) Donald's fitness journey and its importance </p><p>(49:20) Wrap</p><p></p> <br/><br/>This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit <a href="https://hrheretics.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&#38;utm_campaign=CTA_1">hrheretics.substack.com</a>
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49 MIN
Feedback Isn't a Gift, It's a Workout | Culture Amp CEO Didier Elzinga
NOV 21, 2024
Feedback Isn't a Gift, It's a Workout | Culture Amp CEO Didier Elzinga
<p>Didier Elzinga, Culture Amp's CEO, drops bombshell insights about why most leaders get growth wrong, reveals shocking data about manager vs. leader impact, and explains why treating feedback like an all-you-can-eat menu is destroying companies. </p><p>Didier sits down with Kelli Dragovich and Nolan Church for a conversation about company culture, data, and mapping the world of work on two axes—trust versus mission.</p><p>*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected]</p><p>For coaching and advising inquire at <a target="_blank" href="https://kellidragovich.com/">https://kellidragovich.com/</a></p><p>HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.</p><p>—</p><p>📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess">https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess</a></p><p>Support HR Heretics Sponsor:</p><p><strong>Metaview</strong> is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.metaview.ai/heretics">https://www.metaview.ai/heretics</a></p><p><strong>RECOMMENDED PODCAST:</strong></p><p>🎙️ <strong>Unpack Pricing </strong>- Dive into the dark arts of SaaS pricing with Metronome CEO Scott Woody and tech leaders. Learn how strategic pricing drives explosive revenue growth in today's biggest companies like Snowflake, Cockroach Labs, Dropbox and more.</p><p>_</p><p>KEEP UP WITH DIDIER, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN</p><p>Didier: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/didierelzinga">https://www.linkedin.com/in/didierelzinga</a></p><p>Nolan: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/</a></p><p>Kelli: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/</a></p><p>—</p><p>TIMESTAMPS:</p><p>(00:00) Intro</p><p>(02:50) From Harry Potter to CultureAmp CEO </p><p>(04:51) CultureAmp in the Film Industry & Anonymous Feedback </p><p>(08:40) Culture-First Companies & the Importance of Resilience </p><p>(13:24) Current Trends in Employee Engagement & Expectations </p><p>(15:12) Sponsor: Metaview</p><p>(16:24) The Future of Employer-Employee Relationships </p><p>(19:20) Enduring Truths in Culture & Growth </p><p>(21:13) Growth, Ambiguity, and Leadership </p><p>(23:54) Data-Driven Insights & Addressing Gender Gaps </p><p>(27:20) The Director to VP Transition & Hard Lessons </p><p>(31:45) Influencing Change & the Power of Data </p><p>(33:55) The Value & Limitations of Engagement Surveys </p><p>(37:45) Defining Strategy & the Feedback "Workout" </p><p>(39:01) CultureAmp's Non-Negotiables & Growth </p><p>(43:07) The Power of Storytelling & Authenticity</p><p>(46:32) Wrap</p><p></p> <br/><br/>This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit <a href="https://hrheretics.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&#38;utm_campaign=CTA_1">hrheretics.substack.com</a>
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48 MIN
Beyond the Red Flags: Managing Leadership Evolution
NOV 19, 2024
Beyond the Red Flags: Managing Leadership Evolution
<p>How do you navigate a founding CTO's transition when they're struggling to scale? Kelli and Nolan share hard-won wisdom on avoiding common pitfalls: don't rush to judgment, build trust first, and respect the deep bonds between founders. Instead of plotting replacements, focus on supporting growth - and remember that even the best transitions happen through relationships, not force.</p><p>*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected]</p><p>For coaching and advising inquire at <a target="_blank" href="https://kellidragovich.com/">https://kellidragovich.com/</a></p><p>HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.</p><p>—</p><p>📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess">https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess</a></p><p>Support HR Heretics Sponsor:</p><p><strong>Metaview</strong> is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.metaview.ai/heretics">https://www.metaview.ai/heretics</a></p><p>KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN</p><p>Nolan: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/</a></p><p>Kelli: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/</a></p><p>—</p><p>TIMESTAMPS:</p><p>(00:00) Intro</p><p>(01:52) Avoid Premature Judgments</p><p>(04:43) Nuance and Relationship Building</p><p>(07:43) Sponsor Message: Metaview</p><p>(08:55) Further Discussion: Investing in Existing Leadership</p><p>(11:25) Additional Insights: Truth and Trust</p><p>(13:02) The Risk of Premature Action</p><p>(14:23) Summary and Emotional Dynamics</p><p>(14:46) Board Involvement and Conclusion</p><p>(15:37) Wrap</p><p></p> <br/><br/>This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit <a href="https://hrheretics.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&#38;utm_campaign=CTA_1">hrheretics.substack.com</a>
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16 MIN