“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards Build High Performing Companies
“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards Build High Performing Companies

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards Build High Performing Companies

HR Heretics

Overview
Episodes

Details

After a decade+ of “blitz-scaling” companies, HR, talent, and People leaders now face an uncertain economy that has already seen big booms and busts. What will it take to construct the next generation of incredible businesses – and where can people leaders have the most business impact?     Hosts Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich have been through it all, the highs and the lows – IPOs, layoffs, executive turnover, board meetings, culture changes, and more. With a lineup of industry vets and experts, Nolan and Kelli break down the nitty-gritty details, trade offs, and dynamics of constructing high performing companies. Through unfiltered conversations that can only happen between seasoned practitioners – Kelli and Nolan dive deep into the kind of leadership-level strategy that often happens behind closed doors. This show is for those who are ready to ditch conventional wisdom and figure out from first principles what works for their culture, business model, and industry, with the goal of building a resilient and enduring company. You’ll come away with real guidance for seeing around corners, building enduring companies, and carving out an impactful career – plus a newly-honed bullshit detector. Topics frequently touched on in this season include: building high performing cultures, compensation negotiation, performance reviews, company design, equity, M&As, recruiting the best talent, and how to manage your own psychology as a people leader.

hrheretics.substack.com

Recent Episodes

Why Zapier Requires 100% AI Fluency (And How They Measure It)
DEC 11, 2025
Why Zapier Requires 100% AI Fluency (And How They Measure It)
<p>One of our biggest episodes of this past year was with Zapier’s CPO Brandon Sammut, ICYMI or as a refresher, in this essetial Heretics 101 feature, he demonstrates AI agents transforming HR workflows: from automating bar raiser interview prep to performance evidence collection, while explaining their four-level AI fluency framework.</p><p>Support our Sponsor:</p><p><strong>Metaview </strong>is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.metaview.ai/heretics">https://www.metaview.ai/heretics</a></p><p>* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.</p><p>* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.</p><p>* It only takes minutes to get up and running.</p><p>KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN</p><p>Nolan: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/</a></p><p>Kelli: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/</a></p><p>__</p><p>LINKS:</p><p>For coaching and advising inquire at <a target="_blank" href="https://kellidragovich.com/">https://kellidragovich.com/</a></p><p></p><p>—</p><p>TIMESTAMPS:</p><p>(00:00) Intro(00:26) Why AI Fluency is Required for 100% of New Hires(02:00) The 4-Level AI Fluency Rubric: Capable to Transformational(03:38) Demo 1: Bar Raiser Interview Agent(04:33) 730 Employees, 10 VPs - Job Level Discipline(05:47) Agent Explains WHY It Chose Each Question(06:27) The Spectrum of AI Interview Approaches(08:18) Demo 2: Performance Review Evidence Collection(09:21) The Blob Notes Emoji: Triggering Evidence Collection(10:33) Don’t Let Perfect Be the Enemy of Good(11:21) Future Vision: AI Coach Idling in Slack(13:25) “It’s Like Steroids” - Not AI Overlords Taking Over(13:51) Sponsor: Metaview(15:41) Live Demo: Blob Notes in Action(18:13) Employee Choice vs Mandates: Marketing Over Requirements(19:27) Leadership Doing Real Work - Few Companies Have Real Use Cases(21:00) Demo 3: One-on-One Meeting Coach (Most Sophisticated Build)(23:20) Calculating Talk-to-Listen Ratios(24:40) Scaling HR Business Partners - Every Company’s Manager Problem(26:07) Implementation Choices: On-Demand vs Required(27:35) Transparency: What Data? Where Stored? Who Sees It?(28:44) The Iron Man Suit vs AI Overlords(28:56) Where to Find Brandon - LinkedIn(29:12) Wrap</p><p></p><p></p> <br/><br/>This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit <a href="https://hrheretics.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&#38;utm_campaign=CTA_1">hrheretics.substack.com</a>
play-circle icon
29 MIN
The VP Who Asked to Be Demoted: A Masterclass in Self-Awareness
DEC 9, 2025
The VP Who Asked to Be Demoted: A Masterclass in Self-Awareness
<p>For today’s essential Heretics 101 feature, former Meta HR leader Cynthia Bazlamit (Baz) Shrauner talks about demoting herself twice for fulfillment over title. She also describes Facebook’s pandemic hiring frenzy that ballooned teams 10x, the subsequent brutal layoffs, and the effect of DEI resource groups on the company.</p><p>Support our Sponsor:</p><p><strong>Metaview </strong>is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.metaview.ai/heretics">https://www.metaview.ai/heretics</a></p><p>* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.</p><p>* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.</p><p>* It only takes minutes to get up and running.</p><p>KEEP UP WITH BAZ, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN</p><p>Baz: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/cynthia-bazlamit-shrauner-683767/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/cynthia-bazlamit-shrauner-683767/</a></p><p>Nolan: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/</a></p><p>Kelli: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/</a></p><p>__</p><p>LINKS:</p><p>For coaching and advising inquire at <a target="_blank" href="https://kellidragovich.com/">https://kellidragovich.com/</a></p><p>—</p><p>TIMESTAMPS:</p><p><strong>(00:17)</strong> Intro</p><p><strong>(01:06)</strong> The First Demotion Story: Getting Demoted at Facebook</p><p><strong>(05:17)</strong> The Second Demotion: Hiring Christine Ellis & Doing It Again</p><p><strong>(10:00)</strong> “Comparison is the Thief of Joy” - The Ego Struggle</p><p><strong>(11:00)</strong> Sponsor: Metaview</p><p><strong>(12:59)</strong> Meta’s Pandemic Hiring Spree: “We Were Sloppy”</p><p><strong>(15:44)</strong> The Layoffs: Three Waves of RIFs, 8,000+ Cuts</p><p><strong>(19:42)</strong> DEI & Resource Groups: From Fun to Corporate Chaos</p><p><strong>(24:00)</strong> Closing</p><p></p><p></p><p></p> <br/><br/>This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit <a href="https://hrheretics.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&#38;utm_campaign=CTA_1">hrheretics.substack.com</a>
play-circle icon
23 MIN
Bryan Power on Exits, Loyalty, and Why Your Goodbye Matters More Than You Think
DEC 4, 2025
Bryan Power on Exits, Loyalty, and Why Your Goodbye Matters More Than You Think
<p>Bryan Power, who recently left Nextdoor after seven years, discusses his viral article on quitting properly, why exits define careers, manager failures, and the Growth by Design-Cursor acquisition’s implications.</p><p>Support our Sponsor:</p><p><strong>Metaview </strong>is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.metaview.ai/heretics">https://www.metaview.ai/heretics</a></p><p>* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.</p><p>* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.</p><p>* It only takes minutes to get up and running.</p><p>KEEP UP WITH BRYAN, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN</p><p>Bryan: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/bryanpower/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/bryanpower/</a></p><p>Nolan: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/</a></p><p>Kelli: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/</a></p><p>__</p><p>LINKS:</p><p></p><p>For coaching and advising inquire at <a target="_blank" href="https://kellidragovich.com/">https://kellidragovich.com/</a></p><p>—</p><p>TIMESTAMPS:</p><p>(00:00) Introduction & Power Hour Returns</p><p>(00:55) Bryan’s Viral “How to Quit” Article</p><p>(04:00) Why Your Exit Becomes Your Entire Story</p><p>(06:00) Why Companies Don’t Teach Employees How to Leave</p><p>(09:00) The Loyalty Expectation Problem</p><p>(12:27) Sponsor: Metaview</p><p>(14:38) How Managers Screw Up Exits</p><p>(21:57) No Long Goodbyes: The Best Timing Advice</p><p>(24:13) What to Do When Someone Resigns</p><p>(27:30) Maintaining Relationships After You Leave</p><p>(29:26) Growth by Design Acquired by Cursor</p><p>(36:33) The State of the Recruiting Market</p><p>(40:00) AI Native Skills & The Future of Entry Level Hiring</p><p>(46:49) Cringey Corporate Lingo Game</p><p>(50:55) Wrap</p><p></p> <br/><br/>This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit <a href="https://hrheretics.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&#38;utm_campaign=CTA_1">hrheretics.substack.com</a>
play-circle icon
49 MIN
Why L&D Fails (And How to Fix It) with Fidelma Butler
DEC 2, 2025
Why L&D Fails (And How to Fix It) with Fidelma Butler
<p>For today’s essential Heretics 101 feature, Couchbase CPO Fidelma Butler talks about modern L&D: building contextual leadership frameworks, meeting employees in workflows, activating peer teaching, and addressing career development’s promotion fixation.</p><p>Support our Sponsor:</p><p><strong>Metaview </strong>is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.metaview.ai/heretics">https://www.metaview.ai/heretics</a></p><p>* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.</p><p>* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.</p><p>* It only takes minutes to get up and running.</p><p>KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN</p><p>Nolan: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/</a></p><p>Kelli: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/</a></p><p>__</p><p>For coaching and advising inquire at <a target="_blank" href="https://kellidragovich.com/">https://kellidragovich.com/</a></p><p>—</p><p>TIMESTAMPS:</p><p>(00:16) Intro(01:21) Building L&D from Scratch at Couchbase(02:45) Defining Good Leadership: The Three-Way Framework(05:04) Meeting People Where They Are: Escaping Theoretical Land(06:06) When Survey Results Disagree with CEO Priorities(07:35) Embedding L&D in the Fairway of the Job(08:19) Leaders Teaching Leaders: Why It Works(11:36) Coaching for Senior Leaders: Addressing the Intangibles(13:35) Hiring for Modern L&D: New Skills Required(14:25) The Career Development Problem: Everyone Wants It, Nobody Does It(16:30) Why Career Ladders Become Checkbox Exercises(19:01) The Ladders Dilemma and Being Transparent with Employees(20:10) Treating Employees Like Adults(20:59) Outro </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p> <br/><br/>This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit <a href="https://hrheretics.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&#38;utm_campaign=CTA_1">hrheretics.substack.com</a>
play-circle icon
21 MIN
The Post-Acquisition Power Reckoning
NOV 25, 2025
The Post-Acquisition Power Reckoning
<p>For today’s essential Heretics 101 feature, former co-founder and executive coach Adam Weber examines power dynamics and identity transformation following Amplify’s acquisition by 15Five, revealing insights on leadership evolution and maintaining authentic culture through organizational integration.</p><p>Support our Sponsor:</p><p><strong>Metaview </strong>is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.metaview.ai/heretics">https://www.metaview.ai/heretics</a></p><p>* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.</p><p>* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.</p><p>* It only takes minutes to get up and running.</p><p>KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN</p><p>Nolan: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/</a></p><p>Kelli: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/</a></p><p>__</p><p>For coaching and advising inquire at <a target="_blank" href="https://kellidragovich.com/">https://kellidragovich.com/</a></p><p>—</p><p>TIMESTAMPS:</p><p><strong>(00:00)</strong> Intro</p><p><strong>(01:57)</strong> Post-Acquisition Power Dynamics: The Humbling Moment</p><p><strong>(03:00)</strong> HR’s Inflection Point: More Responsibility, Same Resources</p><p><strong>(05:12)</strong> Top 5% HR Leaders: Show Courage and Speak the Language of Business</p><p><strong>(06:59)</strong> What ‘Understanding the Business’ Really Means</p><p><strong>(08:15)</strong> The Reality Check: HR’s Impossible Workload</p><p><strong>(10:25)</strong> Sponsor: Metaview</p><p><strong>(11:47)</strong> The Troubling Trend: AI Up, Leadership Development Down</p><p><strong>(13:50)</strong> The Future of Management: NVIDIA’s Model and Investing in ICs</p><p><strong>(18:18)</strong> Ruthless Experimentation and the Death of Best Practices</p><p><strong>(20:00)</strong> Building Credibility: Sharing Both Wins and Losses</p><p></p> <br/><br/>This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit <a href="https://hrheretics.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&#38;utm_campaign=CTA_1">hrheretics.substack.com</a>
play-circle icon
22 MIN