“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards Build High Performing Companies
“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards Build High Performing Companies

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards Build High Performing Companies

HR Heretics

Overview
Episodes

Details

After a decade+ of “blitz-scaling” companies, HR, talent, and People leaders now face an uncertain economy that has already seen big booms and busts. What will it take to construct the next generation of incredible businesses – and where can people leaders have the most business impact?     Hosts Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich have been through it all, the highs and the lows – IPOs, layoffs, executive turnover, board meetings, culture changes, and more. With a lineup of industry vets and experts, Nolan and Kelli break down the nitty-gritty details, trade offs, and dynamics of constructing high performing companies. Through unfiltered conversations that can only happen between seasoned practitioners – Kelli and Nolan dive deep into the kind of leadership-level strategy that often happens behind closed doors. This show is for those who are ready to ditch conventional wisdom and figure out from first principles what works for their culture, business model, and industry, with the goal of building a resilient and enduring company. You’ll come away with real guidance for seeing around corners, building enduring companies, and carving out an impactful career – plus a newly-honed bullshit detector. Topics frequently touched on in this season include: building high performing cultures, compensation negotiation, performance reviews, company design, equity, M&As, recruiting the best talent, and how to manage your own psychology as a people leader. hrheretics.substack.com

Recent Episodes

Inside Executive Coaching with Nathan Tanner
DEC 18, 2025
Inside Executive Coaching with Nathan Tanner
<p>For today’s essential Heretics 101 feature, executive coach Nathan Tanner reveals the real economics of coaching: transparent revenue breakdowns, pricing strategy, and the path from corporate burnout to independent practice. </p><p>Support our Sponsor:</p><p><strong>Metaview </strong>is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.metaview.ai/heretics">https://www.metaview.ai/heretics</a></p><p>* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.</p><p>* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.</p><p>* It only takes minutes to get up and running.</p><p>KEEP UP WITH NATHAN, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN</p><p>Nathan: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/nathantanner/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/nathantanner/</a></p><p>Nolan: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/</a></p><p>Kelli: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/</a></p><p>__</p><p>LINKS:</p><p>For coaching and advising inquire at <a target="_blank" href="https://kellidragovich.com/">https://kellidragovich.com/</a></p><p>—</p><p>TIMESTAMPS:</p><p>(00:00) Intro</p><p>(01:41) The breakdown story (crying on floor)</p><p>(05:49) “Weekend warriors” critique</p><p>(09:00) Fire your coach every year?</p><p>(10:03) Sponsor: Metaview</p><p>(12:47) $240K → $335K revenue reveal</p><p>(14:20) First full year: $335K breakdown</p><p>(19:14) “Hire Nathan or do nothing” strategy</p><p>(22:16) Burning the boats philosophy</p><p></p> <br/><br/>This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit <a href="https://hrheretics.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&#38;utm_campaign=CTA_1">hrheretics.substack.com</a>
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24 MIN
Blitzscaling's Chris Yeh on Infinite Learning, Staying Cool, and Building Strategic Networks
DEC 16, 2025
Blitzscaling's Chris Yeh on Infinite Learning, Staying Cool, and Building Strategic Networks
<p>For today’s essential Heretics 101 feature, Chris Yeh discusses infinite learning, staying relevant through younger generations, Blitzscaling adaptability principles, assessing founders through shared experiences, and negotiating equity by establishing fair processes before debating numbers.</p><p>Support our Sponsor:</p><p><strong>Metaview </strong>is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.metaview.ai/heretics">https://www.metaview.ai/heretics</a></p><p>* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.</p><p>* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.</p><p>* It only takes minutes to get up and running.</p><p>KEEP UP WITH CHRIS, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN</p><p>Chris: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisyeh/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisyeh/</a></p><p>Nolan: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/</a></p><p>Kelli: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/</a></p><p>__</p><p>LINKS:</p><p>For coaching and advising inquire at <a target="_blank" href="https://kellidragovich.com/">https://kellidragovich.com/</a></p><p>—</p><p>TIMESTAMPS:</p><p><strong>(00:00)</strong> Introduction: Infinite Learning & Blitzscaling Adaptability</p><p><strong>(01:00)</strong> The Source of Energy, Public Speaking & Performance Background</p><p><strong>(02:00)</strong> The Power of Unlearning & Staying Relevant</p><p><strong>(04:08)</strong> Blitzscaling: Hiring for Adaptability & Resilience</p><p><strong>(07:12)</strong> Picking Companies: Thinking Like an Investor</p><p><strong>(09:08)</strong> Assessing Founders: The Travel & Summer Camp Effect</p><p><strong>(10:14)</strong> Sponsor: Metaview</p><p><strong>(11:36)</strong> Negotiating Founder Shares & Equity Splits</p><p><strong>(17:00)</strong> Compensation Philosophy & The Numbers Hack</p><p><strong>(19:13)</strong> Wrap</p><p></p><p></p> <br/><br/>This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit <a href="https://hrheretics.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&#38;utm_campaign=CTA_1">hrheretics.substack.com</a>
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19 MIN
Why Zapier Requires 100% AI Fluency (And How They Measure It)
DEC 11, 2025
Why Zapier Requires 100% AI Fluency (And How They Measure It)
<p>One of our biggest episodes of this past year was with Zapier’s CPO Brandon Sammut, ICYMI or as a refresher, in this essetial Heretics 101 feature, he demonstrates AI agents transforming HR workflows: from automating bar raiser interview prep to performance evidence collection, while explaining their four-level AI fluency framework.</p><p>Support our Sponsor:</p><p><strong>Metaview </strong>is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.metaview.ai/heretics">https://www.metaview.ai/heretics</a></p><p>* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.</p><p>* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.</p><p>* It only takes minutes to get up and running.</p><p>KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN</p><p>Nolan: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/</a></p><p>Kelli: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/</a></p><p>__</p><p>LINKS:</p><p>For coaching and advising inquire at <a target="_blank" href="https://kellidragovich.com/">https://kellidragovich.com/</a></p><p></p><p>—</p><p>TIMESTAMPS:</p><p>(00:00) Intro(00:26) Why AI Fluency is Required for 100% of New Hires(02:00) The 4-Level AI Fluency Rubric: Capable to Transformational(03:38) Demo 1: Bar Raiser Interview Agent(04:33) 730 Employees, 10 VPs - Job Level Discipline(05:47) Agent Explains WHY It Chose Each Question(06:27) The Spectrum of AI Interview Approaches(08:18) Demo 2: Performance Review Evidence Collection(09:21) The Blob Notes Emoji: Triggering Evidence Collection(10:33) Don’t Let Perfect Be the Enemy of Good(11:21) Future Vision: AI Coach Idling in Slack(13:25) “It’s Like Steroids” - Not AI Overlords Taking Over(13:51) Sponsor: Metaview(15:41) Live Demo: Blob Notes in Action(18:13) Employee Choice vs Mandates: Marketing Over Requirements(19:27) Leadership Doing Real Work - Few Companies Have Real Use Cases(21:00) Demo 3: One-on-One Meeting Coach (Most Sophisticated Build)(23:20) Calculating Talk-to-Listen Ratios(24:40) Scaling HR Business Partners - Every Company’s Manager Problem(26:07) Implementation Choices: On-Demand vs Required(27:35) Transparency: What Data? Where Stored? Who Sees It?(28:44) The Iron Man Suit vs AI Overlords(28:56) Where to Find Brandon - LinkedIn(29:12) Wrap</p><p></p><p></p> <br/><br/>This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit <a href="https://hrheretics.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&#38;utm_campaign=CTA_1">hrheretics.substack.com</a>
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29 MIN
The VP Who Asked to Be Demoted: A Masterclass in Self-Awareness
DEC 9, 2025
The VP Who Asked to Be Demoted: A Masterclass in Self-Awareness
<p>For today’s essential Heretics 101 feature, former Meta HR leader Cynthia Bazlamit (Baz) Shrauner talks about demoting herself twice for fulfillment over title. She also describes Facebook’s pandemic hiring frenzy that ballooned teams 10x, the subsequent brutal layoffs, and the effect of DEI resource groups on the company.</p><p>Support our Sponsor:</p><p><strong>Metaview </strong>is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.metaview.ai/heretics">https://www.metaview.ai/heretics</a></p><p>* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.</p><p>* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.</p><p>* It only takes minutes to get up and running.</p><p>KEEP UP WITH BAZ, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN</p><p>Baz: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/cynthia-bazlamit-shrauner-683767/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/cynthia-bazlamit-shrauner-683767/</a></p><p>Nolan: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/</a></p><p>Kelli: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/</a></p><p>__</p><p>LINKS:</p><p>For coaching and advising inquire at <a target="_blank" href="https://kellidragovich.com/">https://kellidragovich.com/</a></p><p>—</p><p>TIMESTAMPS:</p><p><strong>(00:17)</strong> Intro</p><p><strong>(01:06)</strong> The First Demotion Story: Getting Demoted at Facebook</p><p><strong>(05:17)</strong> The Second Demotion: Hiring Christine Ellis & Doing It Again</p><p><strong>(10:00)</strong> “Comparison is the Thief of Joy” - The Ego Struggle</p><p><strong>(11:00)</strong> Sponsor: Metaview</p><p><strong>(12:59)</strong> Meta’s Pandemic Hiring Spree: “We Were Sloppy”</p><p><strong>(15:44)</strong> The Layoffs: Three Waves of RIFs, 8,000+ Cuts</p><p><strong>(19:42)</strong> DEI & Resource Groups: From Fun to Corporate Chaos</p><p><strong>(24:00)</strong> Closing</p><p></p><p></p><p></p> <br/><br/>This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit <a href="https://hrheretics.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&#38;utm_campaign=CTA_1">hrheretics.substack.com</a>
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23 MIN
Bryan Power on Exits, Loyalty, and Why Your Goodbye Matters More Than You Think
DEC 4, 2025
Bryan Power on Exits, Loyalty, and Why Your Goodbye Matters More Than You Think
<p>Bryan Power, who recently left Nextdoor after seven years, discusses his viral article on quitting properly, why exits define careers, manager failures, and the Growth by Design-Cursor acquisition’s implications.</p><p>Support our Sponsor:</p><p><strong>Metaview </strong>is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.metaview.ai/heretics">https://www.metaview.ai/heretics</a></p><p>* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.</p><p>* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.</p><p>* It only takes minutes to get up and running.</p><p>KEEP UP WITH BRYAN, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN</p><p>Bryan: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/bryanpower/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/bryanpower/</a></p><p>Nolan: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/</a></p><p>Kelli: <a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/</a></p><p>__</p><p>LINKS:</p><p></p><p>For coaching and advising inquire at <a target="_blank" href="https://kellidragovich.com/">https://kellidragovich.com/</a></p><p>—</p><p>TIMESTAMPS:</p><p>(00:00) Introduction & Power Hour Returns</p><p>(00:55) Bryan’s Viral “How to Quit” Article</p><p>(04:00) Why Your Exit Becomes Your Entire Story</p><p>(06:00) Why Companies Don’t Teach Employees How to Leave</p><p>(09:00) The Loyalty Expectation Problem</p><p>(12:27) Sponsor: Metaview</p><p>(14:38) How Managers Screw Up Exits</p><p>(21:57) No Long Goodbyes: The Best Timing Advice</p><p>(24:13) What to Do When Someone Resigns</p><p>(27:30) Maintaining Relationships After You Leave</p><p>(29:26) Growth by Design Acquired by Cursor</p><p>(36:33) The State of the Recruiting Market</p><p>(40:00) AI Native Skills & The Future of Entry Level Hiring</p><p>(46:49) Cringey Corporate Lingo Game</p><p>(50:55) Wrap</p><p></p> <br/><br/>This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit <a href="https://hrheretics.substack.com?utm_medium=podcast&#38;utm_campaign=CTA_1">hrheretics.substack.com</a>
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49 MIN