School of Podcasting: Expert Tips for Launching and Growing Your Podcast

When Did It Feel Like You Had "Real" Listeners? A grocery store clerk recognized one of my listeners' co-hosts. A pharmacist gets stopped at conferences for selfies. And one podcaster got an email that ended with, "Yesterday, you and Krista saved lives." This month's Question of the Month asked how long it took before you felt like you had real listeners, and what made you realize it. Seven podcasters answered, and here's what surprised me: not one of them said "when I hit a million downloads." If you're staring at your stats wondering whether anyone is out there, press play. I'll also show you the real median download number on Buzzsprout (it's probably a lot lower than you think) and the 30-second test you should run on your website right now. (Links to everyone's show is at the bottom of this post) Why I Asked This Question I'm trying to help new podcasters set realistic expectations. This month's question and next month's are both about that. So: how long did it take before it felt real, and if it doesn't feel real yet, what would make it feel that way? Neal Veglio: Feedback, 100% I recorded Neal's answer live on Ask the Podcast Coach when he sat in my co-host's chair. For Neal, it's feedback. Our mutual friend Rob Walsh is right that you shouldn't crap on the download, because it's the only measurement we've got. But a download is a number. An email, a text, any outreach from your community, is what tells you it's actually landing with people. When Neal gets an email, he celebrates. Josh Liston: "We Listened to Know If We Wanted to Move Here" Josh hosts Sake This, a short-form sketch show about news, trivia, and travel stories from Japan. But his "real audience" moment came from a hyper-local show he co-hosts with Mel called Punching Sideways. Multiple people told them they listened before moving to town (for work, the military, whatever) to learn about the local music scene, the sports stars, the art scene, the comedians. All from a podcast they started just to make each other laugh. His advice: it took a while, so stick with it. Mark Lawley: "Yesterday, You and Krista Saved Lives" Mark from Practical Prepping watched the download numbers like everyone else at first. The real moment came around the one-year mark, when listener emails started showing up: thank-yous, topic suggestions, and then the ones where people had followed their advice during a severe weather event or personal crisis. He shared one at Empowered Podcasting about a young mom of two who bought a NOAA weather radio and packed a go bag after listening. When a tornado warning hit her area, the radio alerted her, and she grabbed her kids and the bag and went to the shelter. Her email ended with the line above. I have a NOAA weather radio (affiliate link) because of Mark. Here in Ohio we get tornado warnings on a fairly regular basis. If you don't have one, get one. Rob Dalrymple: Real Listeners Before Episode One Rob hosts the Softball Central Podcast, helping players, parents, coaches, and fans navigate the fastpitch softball world. He jokes that he had real listeners before he even started (or that's optimism and caffeine talking). His coming-soon promo got over 2,000 views, and his three launch episodes racked up over 400 listens and views in the first week. Not Joe Rogan numbers? I used to teach, and 20 people was a full class. 400 is twenty classrooms. That's a very long hallway of people. What Rob really wants is community. If you want to test that idea cheaply, Skool runs about nine bucks a month. And to get the rest of the softball world listening: business cards are cheap. Put a QR code on them and hand them out at games. (Rob, I hope to see you inside the School of Podcasting soon.) Chris Smith: Recognized at Harbor Freight Chris and his co-host run Cool Cars with Chris, hitting cars-and-coffee events around Southern California and showcasing other people's rides. The show just turned one. The moment it felt real: his co-host was shopping at Harbor Freight and the clerk recognized him from the podcast. A total stranger who found the show in his feed. Kim Newlove: Six Months, a Florida Student, and a Troll Kim hosts two shows, The Pharmacist's Voice and The Perrysburg Podcast, and both took about six months to feel real. The Pharmacist's Voice: after episode 22, a pharmacy student in Miami messaged her on LinkedIn about her poison-prevention volunteer work. She's in Ohio, he's in Florida. That's when she knew she was reaching beyond people who already knew her. Now people ask for pictures with her at pharmacist conferences and tag her on social media. Her guests promoting their episodes tells her they're listening too. The Perrysburg Podcast: episode 20 featured the city's crime prevention specialist and public information officer talking about porch pirates around Christmas. Both offered to share it on the city and police social channels. For the first time she had help promoting, the comments rolled in ("I didn't know Perrysburg had a podcast!"), and the downloads took off. The troll: she interviewed someone a listener didn't like, and he let her have it. Annoying, but proof people are listening. Two things I'd do differently: Kim was told to launch with 20 episodes and waited until then to promote. That recommendation was not from me. Record test episodes if you want (even 20 versions of episode one), but promote the minute your show is live. Getting no downloads while nobody knows you exist can be soul-crushing. And a tip on pictures: if someone says "I listen to your show," they may want a photo but feel awkward asking. Beat them to it: "It's so great meeting you. Can I get a picture with you?" My Answer: A Voicemail From Germany I was bankrupt, divorced, and living in my brother's basement when I started podcasting. Less than six weeks in, I got a voicemail from Michael Van Laar in Nuremberg, Germany, and about fell out of my chair. I was in nowhere, Ohio. Another time I announced a speaking gig and Kale Nelson reached out because it was near him and offered to take me to dinner. Same lesson: somebody's out there. And I still say you're not a real podcaster until you get a one-star review. You moved somebody. Just not the way you wanted. Make It Easy for People to Reach You The theme here is people reaching out. So: Have a clear "Contact" button on your website. Test it right now. Send yourself a message and make sure it arrives. Every year when I do my favorite-episodes round-up, I find shows where the only way to reach the host is an Instagram DM. Everybody understands email. Use whatever you like, but make it easy. An Apology to Chris and Albert Fan List (I love Pat over there) had a bad day and truncated messages to five seconds. So I got exactly "Hey, Dave Jackson" from Chris Nesi, the king of ed tech, and "Hello, Dave, this is Albert Bermanti from Mental Rehearsal Podcast" from Albert. Chris even re-recorded after I asked on Saturday's live show. Since I use Captivate, I can drop their full answers into this episode dynamically later, so if you hear them, that's why. For now, schoolofpodcasting.com/question lets you upload a file or leave a voicemail, and the new "Leave Voicemail" button goes to schoolofpodcasting.com/voicemail, the voicemail system built into PodPage (two-minute limit). Speaking of Albert: Mental Rehearsal is the show where, at our School of Podcasting listener party, we all asked "when is this going live?" If you're a perfectionist, check out his August 16 episode on dealing with perfectionism. Nobody Mentioned a Big Number Not one person said "when I passed a million downloads." It was always that somebody was listening. If you're "only" getting 60 downloads an episode, that's three classrooms. Go to buzzsprout.com/stats. As I record this in October 2026, the median is 27 downloads per episode after seven days. Half of shows get more, half get less. The top 1% are close to 5,000. But as Ray from Around the Layout says, it's not how many, it's who many. 2,000 people who love knitting but never want to start a podcast aren't my audience. Podcasting is like golf or bowling: you're only as good as your last game, and comparing yourself to someone who's played longer (or had John Lee Dumas's savings runway) doesn't help. Be Careful: People Might Actually Do What You Say New podcasters freak out because nobody's listening, then freak out because people are. I once consulted with a guy who owned both a Zoom PodTrak P4 and a RØDECaster. Why both? "You said it was cool." That's $600 he didn't need to spend. People listen, and they might act on what you say. Please Don't Email Me Your Answer I say this with love: use schoolofpodcasting.com/question. Everything lands in MediaFire (which notifies me) or Fan List. Email is a third place, and I get roughly 80 emails a day, 79 of them junk. Your answer will get lost. And if you emailed me and I never answered, reach out again. While we're at it: that "I'd love to be a guest on your show" email is probably a bot. Want to learn how to pitch yourself the right way? Visit pitchapodcast.com, and share any good (or bad) pitches you've received. If you want your podcast ready by January, now's the time to start planning. It's not about starting quickly, it's about starting correctly. My free course is at podcastinginsixweeks.com, and if you want hands-on help, head to schoolofpodcasting.com and use the coupon code LISTENER for a monthly, quarterly, or yearly subscription, backed by a 30-day money-back guarantee. Show notes are at schoolofpodcasting.com/1059, courtesy of PodPage. Shows & Websites Mentioned This month's contributors Neal Veglio, Podcasting Insights / Pod Mastery: https://podmastery.co Josh Liston, Sake This: https://sakethis.com (also co-hosts Punching Sideways with Mel) Mark Lawley, Practical Prepping: https://practicalprepping.info Rob Dalrymple, Softball Central Podcast: https://softballcentralpodcast.com Chris Smith, Cool Cars with Chris: https://coolcarswithchris.com Kim Newlove, The Pharmacist's Voice: https://thepharmacistsvoice.com Kim Newlove, The Perrysburg Podcast: https://perrysburgpodcast.com Albert Bermanti, Mental Rehearsal: https://mentalrehearsal.show Chris Nesi: https://chrisnesi.com Also mentioned School of Podcasting (coupon code LISTENER): https://schoolofpodcasting.com Episode show notes: https://schoolofpodcasting.com/1059 Send in your answer: https://schoolofpodcasting.com/question Leave me a voicemail: https://schoolofpodcasting.com/voicemail Buzzsprout podcast stats: https://buzzsprout.com/stats Around the Layout (Ray): https://aroundthelayout.com Pitch a Podcast: https://pitchapodcast.com Podcasting in Six Weeks (free course): https://podcastinginsixweeks.com Skool: https://skool.com PodPage: https://podpage.com Mentioned in this episode: School of Podcasting: Coached Plan You don’t need another list of things you could do with your podcast. You need help figuring out what to do next—and someone in your corner to help you follow through. With School of Podcasting: Coached, you get everything in the School of Podcasting, plus a weekly meeting with me, Dave Jackson, text access between meetings, and clear next steps after every session. Less second-guessing. More moving forward. Join School of Podcasting: Coached today—and let’s get your podcast where you want it to go. School of Podcasting: Coached Podpage Stopped her From Quitting Her Podcast! Kelly Palace does the Outswim Podcast (outswimpodcast.com) and has been doing it for years. She was ready to unplug the show when she discovered Podpage. It took many workflow items off her plate and kept her podcasting. Start your free 14-day Trial at podpage.com/preview Podpage Question of the Month: What is a "Newbie Podcaster" Poll Question: What makes someone a “newbie podcaster”? Is it how long they’ve been podcasting or how many episodes they’ve published? Is it something else? How would you define a newbie podcaster? Leave your answer at schoolofpodcasting.com/question by November 27th and don't forget to mention your show and your website address so I can link to it in the show notes. (Please try to keep them under 5 minutes if you can). Question of the Month Unlock Exclusive Insights: Subscribe to 'Podcasting Observations' Newsletter! Get a look into the world of podcasting like never before with "Podcasting Observations," your go-to source for trends, tips, and transformative insights tailored just for podcasters. You also get "behind the scenes" info from the School of Podcasting Don't miss out on staying ahead of the game—join the 1700+ people who are already reading Podcasting Observations today! Podcasting Observations Live Appearacves November 7th Podindy.com use the coupon code sop - Whiteland Indiana November 12th at 3PM Daniel J. Lewis will be doing a Demo of Podgagement. Brought to you by Podpage.com Register at schoolofpodcasting.com/where Where Will I Be?

A friend of mine gets more and more opportunities. Why because he takes advantages of each and every one. He prepares and over delivers. I had an opportunity where I could deliver content on MY timeline and while my information was helpful, I took a weird path to get to the point. As someone who embraces feedback, the folks at the buzzcast gave me some loving feedback, I took it, and today I explain where I went wrong and how you can stay focused to deliver razor sharp content that gets people sharing your content. What is the main point, and are all of your points in alignment? When you have a segment in your show, do all of the bullet point that make up that segment contribute to the value? Do you makes the same point multiple times? Do you take a crooked path to the point? What would the audience ask if they were in your chair? That's a good place to start. The Easiest Way to Speed Up Editing The easiest way to speed up editing is to have a clear understanding of what your audience wants. The more you know, the more you know what to keep and what to lose. Don't Ruin the Recording With Active Listening Active listening is when you say things like, "Sure, uh huh.." to show someone you are listening. You don't want to do that in a podcast as you are stepping on the guests answers. When they start talking, SHUT UP AND LISTEN, and write down any follow questions and go back to listening. An Interview is Meant to Make the GUEST look Good I hear so many podcasts hosts throw in a comment that is more of less, "I did that too" which is great in a conversation, but we don't need to hear the same point twice. At one point Chevy Chase said, "Can you see I'm in the middle of a story" when he was on the Bill Maher show Club Random. Research Links Research Links Anthony Hopkins on Being Estranged From His Daughter - The Interview Billy Corgan interview Matthew Sweet on The Magnificent Others Bill Maher Club Random with Chevy Chase Buzzcast Geologic Podcast with George Hrab Congressional Dish Bill Burr's Monday Morning Podcast Animated: Shari's Berries - YouTube Mentioned in this episode: Podpage Stopped her From Quitting Her Podcast! Kelly Palace does the Outswim Podcast (outswimpodcast.com) and has been doing it for years. She was ready to unplug the show when she discovered Podpage. It took many workflow items off her plate and kept her podcasting. Start your free 14-day Trial at podpage.com/preview Podpage Don't Wait to Level Up Your Show Thinking about starting a podcast—or already 300 episodes in? Skip the rookie mistakes, save money, and level up your show with the School of Podcasting with Dave Jackson, where you get hands-on feedback, one-on-one support, and practical advice that actually improves your podcast. Not sure? Just ask Krista and Mark from practicalprepping.info Then join the School of Podcasting at www.schoolofpodcasting.com/join (or use the link below) School of Podcasting Live Appearacves November 7th Podindy.com use the coupon code sop - Whiteland Indiana November 12th at 3PM Daniel J. Lewis will be doing a Demo of Podgagement. Brought to you by Podpage.com Register at schoolofpodcasting.com/where Where Will I Be? Question of the Month: What is a "Newbie Podcaster" Poll Question: What makes someone a “newbie podcaster”? Is it how long they’ve been podcasting or how many episodes they’ve published? Is it something else? How would you define a newbie podcaster? Leave your answer at schoolofpodcasting.com/question by November 27th and don't forget to mention your show and your website address so I can link to it in the show notes. (Please try to keep them under 5 minutes if you can). Question of the Month

AI Can Now Delete Your Podcast Ads. Here's Your Plan B. What if your listeners could tell an AI to cut every ad out of your podcast and get back a clean file a few minutes later? That's not a hypothetical anymore. Adam Curry, the co-inventor of podcasting, just did it on the Podcasting 2.0 show, and the episode he tested turned out to be roughly half ads. If any part of your income depends on advertising, this one's for you. I walk through what happened, why Bill Burr's "terrible" ad reads actually sold more product, the real math on what Captivate, Buzzsprout, Supercast, and Patreon take from your premium subscriptions, and the soul-crushing (but honest) numbers from my own paid newsletter. And at the end, I ask you a question about AI that has nothing to do with your podcast and everything to do with your life. AI Just Stripped the Ads Out of a Podcast On Podcasting 2.0, Adam Curry connected his AI tool to Podcast Index using something called Model Context Protocol (MCP), which is a fancy way of saying "a way to plug AI into other systems." Then he asked it to grab the latest episode of Ed Zitron's Better Offline and strip out the ads at the beginning. Eight minutes later, it was done. The raw file was 12 minutes and 36 seconds. The actual episode was 6 minutes and 38 seconds. The AI removed a 2 minute and 54 second pre-roll block, verified the new file started right on Ed's "hello," and then offered to trim the three minutes of ads at the end too. His co-host Dave Jones said what we were all thinking: it's over for ads. And honestly, when half your content is ads, can you blame people for wanting them gone? Adam's Real Point: Discoverability The following week, Adam came back and said we were all missing the point. He's excited about discoverability. If an AI can go fetch an episode and clean it up, it can also go "find me a show about blank," which is basically building your own search engine. His bot even offered to go get the next episode. (For the record, when someone says "there's no discoverability in podcasting," what they usually mean is "nobody's discovered my podcast." Word of mouth works just like an algorithm, and it doesn't change the rules every month.) I also got pitched by a company that wanted me to promote their ad-cutting app. I'm not naming them. As much as I dislike bloated ad loads, if you're selling an advertiser on getting in front of thousands of people and a chunk of them never hear the ad, that starts to look like fraud. Want People to Listen to Your Ads? Make Better Ads A theme I heard during the business days at Podcast Movement: if you want people to hear your ads, make them better. Exhibit A is comedian Bill Burr, who sold out Madison Square Garden. Back in 2013, he did a now-famous read for Shari's Berries where he read the company's instructions out loud and roasted the copy. The company called and asked him to take it down. He didn't. People ordered the berries anyway, partly because he said he'd get in trouble, it turned out they were delicious, and sales went up. Younger brands figured out that people were actually listening to him. The catch today: brand-safety robots now scan transcripts, and in a lot of cases "brand safe" means "boring (IMHO)." They don't always understand slang. Tell a bot "that's the bomb" and see what happens. Programmatic Ads vs. Selling Your Own Stuff Programmatic ads (the Geicos and Progressives that aren't host-read) pay somewhere between $1 and $7 per thousand downloads, depending on who you ask. That's why so many shows stuff their episodes full of them. Only 8.6% of podcast listeners say they could tolerate a few more ads if it keeps a podcast free, according to The Podcast Study 2026. Meanwhile, 54.8% already say podcasts carry too many ads. see more I've always said the most profitable way to make money with your podcast is to sell your own product or service. If you buy my book, Profit from Your Podcast, I make about $12. At a $5 CPM, I'd need 2,400 downloads to make the same $12. Which is easier: 2,400 downloads, or selling one book to an audience you're specifically trying to attract? The PBS Method: Premium Podcasts and Crowdfunding No product? Try the PBS method: give people a great show, then ask them to support it. Here's what the big premium podcast platforms take (in USD, including card processing): Captivate: 12% plus processing, about 14.9% + 30¢ per transaction Buzzsprout: a flat 15%, fees included Supercast: 59¢ per subscriber per month, plus about 3.6% + 30¢ Patreon (standard plan): about 12% + 30¢ The best choice depends on your price. On a $5 monthly tier, Buzzsprout leaves you the most, about $4.25. At $10, Supercast pulls ahead because its per-subscriber fee is flat: you keep about $8.75, versus $8.50 at Buzzsprout and $8.21 at Captivate. We're talking pennies per person, but multiply that by a few hundred supporters and it adds up. My Paid Newsletter: Here's the Soul-Crushing Part My newsletter, Podcasting Observations, lives on Substack and costs $4 a month. It has 2,407 subscribers. Sounds impressive, right? Eight of them pay. That's 0.3%, a tenth of the 3% I usually tell people to expect. Annualized revenue is up 73%, from $227 to $393. (So again, it takes time). I won't blink at $400. Thank you to everyone who supports it. But that's what I call a "garden hose in the pool," not a fire hose. And the newsletter still pays off as a lead magnet, because some of those readers join the School of Podcasting. Chapo Trap House: The Long Game Want to see what the fire hose looks like? Go to Graphtreon, use Advanced Filtering, and show only podcasts. Chapo Trap House has about 46,000 paying supporters averaging $4.21 a month, which works out to roughly $194,769 a month. The catch everyone skips: they started in May 2016. They release free episodes and paywalled ones, and they've had a decade to build. It's not "which one way should I make money with my podcast?" Do them all. Affiliate Income and Donate Buttons Amazon affiliates: I've made $129 in 2026 from around 134 orders, roughly a dollar an order, mostly microphones. Set it up once with things your audience actually wants. Every so often someone buys a $2,000 TV with their mic. Watch Amazon's rules. You can get booted for saying something like "shop with my link, it supports the show." It happened to comedian Jay Mohr. I use Genius Link, which also shows me what people click (right now it's Tom Webster's The Audience Is Listening and Storyworthy). PodPage has an affiliate program, and it pays nicely. Donate buttons: I like Buy Me a Coffee because it makes recurring support easy. It may take a little more in fees, but it's simpler for the listener. PayPal, Buy Me a Coffee, Supercast, and Patreon all integrate with PodPage. AI Saves You Time. Now What? I've used Claude to teach me Claude. For my free Podcasting in Six Weeks class, I drop the transcript of my hour-long session into it with my brand colors and ask for a summary sheet of the main points plus every URL mentioned. It comes out gorgeous and saves me a lot of time. My buddy John of Boomer Bunker (and his new show Over 50 Overhaul) is having a blast with AI too. So here's what I want you to slow down and think about. If you spend $20 a month on AI and it saves you time, what will you do with that time? The knee-jerk answer is "more social media, a newsletter, more podcast stuff." Before you go there, look at your life. More time with your spouse, your kids, your dog? Back to an old hobby? (For me, it's that losing weight is a lot harder now than in my 30s.) If your life is under major stress, it shows up in your podcast. I know this from experience. The better you are, the better your show can be. Is This the End of Podcast Advertising? I don't think so. Adam was tapping into something very geeky (MCP Connection into the Podcast Index), and we still have radio and newspapers. Changes like this take time. And with billions of dollars supposedly on the table, I don't see the advertising world just letting this happen. I expect them to fight back. But if all of your income comes from ads, it's time to work on a Plan B. 2027 is going to be a very interesting year in podcasting. Podcasting in Six Weeks: Possibly the Last One My free Podcasting in Six Weeks course starts in November and runs around the holidays, so you can have a show ready in January. We've been experimenting a lot at the School of Podcasting this year, and this may be the last time I run it. Get on the list at podcastinginsixweeks.com (the numeral or the spelled-out six both work, I bought both). Ready to start now? Head to schoolofpodcasting.com and use the coupon code LISTENER for a monthly, quarterly, or yearly subscription, backed by a 30-day money-back guarantee. The website is hosted at PodPage. Next week: editing. I sent a voicemail to the folks at Buzzcast (Kevin, Alban, and Jordan), got a little wordy, and they called me on it. They had a point. We'll use that clip to talk about editing, and why if it takes you three hours to edit an episode, something's wrong. Websites Mentioned School of Podcasting (coupon code LISTENER): https://schoolofpodcasting.com PodPage: https://podpage.com Podcast Index: https://podcastindex.org Graphtreon: https://graphtreon.com Podcasting in Six Weeks (free course): https://podcastinginsixweeks.com Boomer Bunker (John): https://boomerbunker.com Bill Burr discusses ads with Tim Ferris Watch on YouTube Want to Support the show? Buy Dave a Coffee Mentioned in this episode: Podpage Email Alerts Podpage just launched a feature called Episode Alerts. It automatically emails your subscribers the moment a new episode goes live — no third-party email tool needed. When you publish, Podpage sends the email, links listeners straight to the episode, routes replies to your own inbox, and handles unsubscribes automatically. They also run every email address through validation and monitor bounces/spam complaints to protect your sender reputation. It's not meant to replace a full newsletter platform — no drip campaigns or segmentation — just a simple "hey, new episode's up" notification. It's available for Pro and Elite users, with monthly sending caps of 500 emails on Pro and 5,000 on Elite. For more information see https://www.podpage.com/updates/introducing-episode-alerts/ Podpage Question of the Month: What is a "Newbie Podcaster" Poll Question: What makes someone a “newbie podcaster”? Is it how long they’ve been podcasting or how many episodes they’ve published? Is it something else? How would you define a newbie podcaster? Leave your answer at schoolofpodcasting.com/question by November 27th and don't forget to mention your show and your website address so I can link to it in the show notes. (Please try to keep them under 5 minutes if you can). Question of the Month Get Some Feedback On Your Show “Want honest, helpful feedback on your podcast? At the School of Podcasting, we host ‘Listening Parties’ where members share short clips and get constructive, encouraging critiques from fellow podcasters and myself. It’s a safe, supportive way to hear what’s working, fix what’s not, and make your show stronger fast.” School of Podcasting Live Appearacves November 7th Podindy.com use the coupon code sop - Whiteland Indiana November 12th at 3PM Daniel J. Lewis will be doing a Demo of Podgagement. Brought to you by Podpage.com Register at schoolofpodcasting.com/where Where Will I Be?

Stop Researching, Start Doing (This Time I Brought Receipts) Be honest: how many podcast growth videos have you watched this month, and how many of those ideas have you actually tried? I get it. I have courses I've bought and never opened. But a few weeks ago I challenged you to quit swinging for the grand slam and just make solid contact, and this time I'm back with proof. My buddy Mark actually did the work, and his downloads jumped 17% in five weeks. I also share the free, 42-second habit that's sending people to my website every week, the five-minute move that got me mentioned on another podcast without even asking, and some surprising data on what happened to shows that added video in Apple Podcasts. If you've been stuck in research mode, this is your nudge to press play and then go do something. Mark Did It: 17% Growth in Five Weeks Over the last several weeks, we've been running growth masterminds inside the School of Podcasting, talking strictly about strategies to grow your show. Plenty of people listened. Mark Lawley from Practical Prepping actually put them to work. Buzzsprout sends him a weekly download count, and over five weeks his numbers grew about 17%, with a lot of people going back into his back catalog. I'll take that all day. Find, Click, Act To grow your reach, remember the order things happen in: They have to find you first. That means a good episode title that's a promise of what's inside, not clickbait, and show notes full of helpful words (preferably ones that came out of your mouth, not AI's). People find you through word of mouth, paid promotion, or organic search, and Google loves good words. Then they have to click. Once they land on your website, don't make them dig for episodes. Then they have to act. Tell a friend, buy your product, visit your sponsor, whatever your "why" is. My Social Media Experiment You can't manage what you don't track. I knew some people wouldn't want to pay for a tool (I LOVE Switchy and it's only $39 for a lifetime deal), so I used Short.io, which gives you 100 trackable links for free and takes about 42 seconds per link. I expected next to nothing from social. Instead, posting once to three times a week, I was getting around 40 clicks a week. That's roughly 160 a month and about 1,920 a year, from less than five minutes per post across Bluesky, Twitter, LinkedIn, and Facebook. Clicks aren't downloads, and nobody's told me yet that they found the show on social. But before I tried this, I had zero clicks to my website. If what you're doing now isn't growing your audience, try something. Stop waiting for the perfect opportunity while week after week goes by. Are You Afraid of Success? Sometimes it's not fear of failure holding you back. You already launched. It might be fear of success. Here's what I hear, and my answer to each: "If I get popular, people will criticize me." People in line behind you at Walmart are already judging you. "Who am I to be listened to?" You've done hard things before. You have life experience worth sharing. "What if I disappoint people?" You already do, on a regular basis. That's life. "What if my hobby turns into a job?" It's your show. You decide. "Then I'll have to monetize." No, you won't. If you don't want sponsors, don't have sponsors. "What if I try everything and it still doesn't grow?" You've already started to grow. We just want to throw some gasoline on it. Other things get in the way too: perfectionism that keeps you researching forever, goals that are too vague or too big, strategies that don't fit your values (that's okay, you should have values), and plain old discomfort with being visible. I once wanted to refund a client because every option I offered got "I'm not doing that." The Five-Minute Strategy: Leave a Voicemail If you listen to a show similar to yours, leave it a voicemail. Neal Veglio did this on the Pod News Weekly Review, and he always brought value. He made me think or laugh every time. So when I was telling people to find someone who shares their audience, I went and found Neal's show, cherry-picked episodes because his titles were so good (there's another strategy), and mentioned him on my show. Without me asking, he returned the favor on Podmastery:Podcasting Insights. We haven't even figured out what we're doing together yet, and we've already cross-promoted. Total time: less than five minutes. It reminded me of the Podcasters' Roundtable with Ray Ortega and Daniel J. Lewis. They're technically my competition, and also some of my favorite people on the planet. How I Got Into the Hall of Fame I was asked this week how I got into the Podcasting Hall of Fame. My answer is a joke that isn't a joke: I didn't quit. Others did. You can't make a dent in anyone's life if you quit. There was a time you didn't know how to button a shirt, tie your shoes, or walk. You learned by doing it, and sometimes doing it wrong. As Zig Ziglar said, you don't have to be great to start, but you have to start to be great. Figure out who your audience is, go where they are, make friends, and tell them about your show. That's Podcast Growth 101. Using Podcorn? Remove Your Prefix Now Podcorn is going away (I believe sometime in early November). If you added their tracking prefix at your media host, every one of your episodes will stop working when they shut down unless you remove it. Do it now so you don't wake up to zero downloads and a pile of "I can't download your show" emails. Are You Even Close to Being Ready For Ads? While you're in there: when I worked at Libsyn, I'd see shows with 317 downloads running three or four prefixes for companies that require 10,000. Every prefix is one more piece of technology that can fail and take your files down with it. Find out the minimum you need to qualify, and add the prefix when you get there. Does Adding Video in Apple Podcasts Help? Rob Walsh from Captivate always brings the receipts, and he makes stats fun. He looked at shows that opted into Apple's video program in May and compared their August Apple Podcasts numbers to their average for February through April: 15% went up 32% stayed flat (within plus or minus 15%) 53% went down That's about an 85% chance your Apple numbers stay flat or drop. The theory he heard: listeners saw the show had video and went to watch it on YouTube instead. His advice, and ours from the start: if you want to do video, start on YouTube. If it doesn't add too much stress to your workflow, keep going and maybe add it to Apple. What makes me sad is people who added video, got overwhelmed, and dropped the podcast instead of the video. All of the Podcast Movement presentations, including Rob's, are on the Podcast Movement YouTube channel. Podcasting in Six Weeks Is Starting Soon If you want to launch a podcast in 2027, my free Podcasting in Six Weeks course starts in a couple of weeks. We'll work our way around the holidays. Sign up at podcastinginsixweeks.com. Bonus: The Wendy's Story Stick around after the outro for a story about a hamburger order that went wrong several times (hamburger, not cheeseburger), me losing my patience, and why I went back to the counter on my way out to apologize. Try saying you're sorry. It makes you feel better, and the other person will probably thank you. Want to grow your show like Mark? Head to schoolofpodcasting.com, click Join, and use the coupon code LISTENER for a monthly, quarterly, or yearly subscription. You get courses, community, and one-on-one coaching, backed by a 30-day money-back guarantee. The website runs on PodPage. Websites Mentioned School of Podcasting (coupon code LISTENER): https://schoolofpodcasting.com Practical Prepping (Mark Lawley): https://practicalprepping.info P3 Media Group (Mark's editing services): https://p3mediagroup.net Short.io (free click tracker): https://short.io Podcasting in Six Weeks (free course): https://podcastinginsixweeks.com PodPage: https://podpage.com Podcast Movement on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Usbj2xiCzTM&list=PLBz7fpQ0lT3I Podmastery: Podcasting Insights : https://podmastery.co/ Mentioned in this episode: Join the School of Podcasting Mark from Practical Prepping had been podcasting for a while, but after joining the School of Podcasting, his podcast grew at a faster rate. His Facebook group has over 30,000 members! Join the School of Podcasting and get access to: Step-by-step tutorials An amazing podcast community Unlimited One-On-One Coaching Join today worry-free with a 30-day money-back guarantee! School of Podcasting Live Appearacves November 7th Podindy.com use the coupon code sop - Whiteland Indiana November 12th at 3PM Daniel J. Lewis will be doing a Demo of Podgagement. Brought to you by Podpage.com Register at schoolofpodcasting.com/where Where Will I Be? Podpage Makes Interview Shows Eaier Podpage works any scheduling tool We have a guest intake form for collecting information. That information can be automatically tied to their episode. We can notify the guest their episode is live We make a page showing all of your guests (to boost credibility) You can now feature guests on your guest page Start your 14 Day Trial by going to podpage.com/preview Podpage Question of the Month: What is a "Newbie Podcaster" Poll Question: What makes someone a “newbie podcaster”? Is it how long they’ve been podcasting or how many episodes they’ve published? Is it something else? How would you define a newbie podcaster? Leave your answer at schoolofpodcasting.com/question by November 27th and don't forget to mention your show and your website address so I can link to it in the show notes. (Please try to keep them under 5 minutes if you can). Question of the Month

A listener once told me they hoped I'd quit teaching altogether. Another told me, in the nicest way possible, that the curmudgeon was showing up a little too early these days. Only one of those helped my show. This month's Question of the Month was all about feedback: what's the most constructive feedback you've ever received, and what's the most destructive? A few listeners sent in their answers, I share mine, and to prove how much feedback matters, I dig up some embarrassing basement recordings from a much younger Dave Jackson. Let's get into it. Why Aren't You Getting Feedback? It honestly boggles my mind how many podcasters never ask for feedback and then wonder why their show isn't growing. Think of it like making someone a sandwich. You can ask, "I've got baloney, smoked turkey, or salami. Which do you want?" and make something they'll actually eat. Or you can hand everyone salami and say "tell your friends," while half of them are quietly thinking, "I hate salami." Ralph Estep Jr.: "Go Hire a Speaking Coach" Ralph, the content creator's accountant, says the best feedback he ever got was to hire a speaking coach. People (me included) told him he sounded robotic on his show, nothing like the Ralph you meet on a Zoom call or in person. He found a coach, and it changed the way he does everything. On the other side, he's had people tell him they hope he gets hit by a bus or struck by lightning over his religious views. He's not taking that advice. His point: when you get feedback, consider who it's coming from and whether it makes sense to act on it. York Campbell: The Name Was the Problem York's show used to be called Poetic Earthlings, and people kept assuming it was about poetry. It's actually short sci-fi stories: time travel, alien worlds, hyperdimensional creatures, and a few conspiracy theories. A fellow podcaster suggested Welcome to Earth Stories, and once he made the change, the attention and downloads followed. As York put it, sometimes you fall in love with a clever name because of what it means to you, and never stop to ask whether anyone else will understand it. Timothy Kimo Brien: "You Called My Baby Ugly" Tim submitted his old show, KDOI Podcasting (Kimo's Den of Iniquity), to the Podcast Rodeo Show. I said it sounded like a radio station, and the full name sounded like... something else entirely. Tim was not a happy camper. Later, sitting at a podcast conference and hearing someone talk about making your show's title clear, he asked himself what his show actually does: it's about creating art. Hello, Create Art Podcast. He's gone from roughly 200–300 downloads a month to between 1,000 and 1,500. He says it's not necessarily because of the name change. I say probably. Either way, it helped him focus on what the show is really about. My Best Feedback: The Curmudgeon Is Showing Before Podfest even started, my buddy Steve Stewart asked me to lunch and asked if I was open to notes. I grew up professionally with "constant improvement" on the walls of my first job, so of course I was. He told me the curmudgeon was coming out a little quicker than it used to. That was gold, because it was something I could control and fix. And it came from someone whose opinion I value, someone who'll tell me when something's good and when it isn't. Knowledge is only power when you act on it. My First Bad Review (and What Good Feedback Looks Like) In 2010, five years into podcasting, I got my first negative review: basically "not good, not enough thought, it's a commercial for bad services." It knocked me back on my heels, but there was nothing I could fix, because it never said why. (This is why I now say you're not a real podcaster until you get a one-star review.) Compare that to a 2017 review from a listener who wanted to hear the show but said the mix had a hiss or too much treble. That's great feedback. It's specific, and I could have adjusted it (I was using the Electro-Voice RE320 back then and liked my S's and T's crisp). The only problem is he should have sent it to me directly. A few things to keep in mind: The person might be having a bad day. After decades in customer support, I've seen people apologize later once they calmed down. Ask yourself: do they have a point? If so, can you fix it? Make it easy for feedback to reach you. A review isn't a direct line. Save the nice messages. On days you don't feel like recording, they remind you people are listening. Reviews are social proof, but they don't help you get found. Apple has said so. When Feedback Goes Wrong: The Podcast Rodeo Show In 2017 I launched the Podcast Rodeo Show, where I'd grab a random podcast and give a real first impression. (Half of YouTube is reaction videos now. I'm taking credit for inventing it. I didn't.) One episode, a host opened by sharing a string of genuinely awful personal experiences, all within the first few minutes, and never said what the show was about, who it was for, or even that it was an interview. My feedback was all logic: what's in it for the listener? As Erik K. Johnson says, nobody gets on a bus if they don't know where it's going. Don't bury the lead. People don't care about you until you give them a reason to care. She emailed and attacked me personally, said I was cruel and should never call myself a teacher. It hit me hard enough that I worried the show was hurting my brand, and it's part of why the show eventually ended. Listening back now, I could have been more compassionate. But when I asked my audience whether they wanted a kinder, gentler version, they very loudly said no. So the show evolved (a little less "listen and react," a little more "what do we want them to learn") and got rebranded, first to Podcast Hot Seat (people said that sounded painful) and now to Fix My Podcast. Scott Orr: How to Take Hard Feedback Now compare that to Scott Orr, an award-winning journalist and host of Code 3 – The Firefighters Podcast. Before one review, I reached out and said, respectfully, "Scott, you sound like you're drunk." He replied that he didn't have a drinking problem. He has Parkinson's. Instead of getting angry, Scott took the feedback and now opens every episode by saying he won't let Parkinson's stop him. When Scott later came on the Podcast Review Show, Erik K. Johnson pointed out that addressing it up front is disarming. Listeners stop wondering what's going on and focus on what Scott's saying, not how he's saying it. Honest? Yes. Awkward? Yes. Helpful? Absolutely. You Can't See Your Own Typos My favorite example: I once had a typo in the School of Podcasting's own tagline ("plan, launch, grow, and monetize") and didn't catch it. Sometimes you just don't see it. Young Dave Jackson's Basement Tapes At School of Podcasting we hold listener parties, where members listen to an episode together and give feedback in real time. Some people cringe at the idea. So here's my confession: in my twenties I was basically Ross from Friends, recording angry '80s rock in my basement. Guitar, bass, keys, drum machine, and, unfortunately, all the vocals. I'd hit play and leave the room while friends listened. Their feedback? "Who's playing the piano?" Me. "Who's on bass?" Me. Nobody said a word about the music. Just recently, my brother found that CD and told me the songs and singing weren't that bad, but the mix was horrendous. Thirty years later. A little late. Here's the scary part: you're going to be judged anyway. Wouldn't it make more sense to be judged in a way where you can capture the feedback and make changes before you publish? The Sidewalk Lesson A few years ago on the Fourth of July, I fell on an uneven sidewalk while looking at my phone and still have the scars on my knees. That was feedback too, just the painful kind. If someone had warned me about that raised block of cement ahead of time, I'd have saved myself a lot of trouble. That's what good feedback does. Give me feedback on this show: head to schoolofpodcasting.com/survey and tell me how I can make it better. I'm doing this show for you. Want help growing your show? Go to schoolofpodcasting.com and use the coupon code LISTENER for a monthly, quarterly, or yearly subscription, backed by a 30-day money-back guarantee. Next week: one thing I did in under five minutes that put me directly in front of my target audience. Follow at schoolofpodcasting.com/follow so you get it the minute it drops. Contributors & Links Ralph Estep Jr., the Content Creator's Accountant: https://ralphestepjr.com Becoming Financially Confident (live weekdays, 11:30 a.m. ET): https://becomingfinanciallyconfident.com York Campbell, Welcome to Earth Stories: https://welcometoearthstories.com Timothy Kimo Brien, Create Art Podcast: https://createartpodcast.com Steve Stewart, Podcast Editors Academy: https://stevestewart.me Scott Orr, Code 3 – The Firefighters Podcast: https://code3podcast.com Erik K. Johnson, Podcast Talent Coach: https://podcasttalentcoach.com Also Mentioned Fix My Podcast (get your show audited): https://fixmypodcast.com Podcast Rodeo Show archive: https://podcastrodeoshow.com Podcast Review Show: https://www.podcastreviewshow.com School of Podcasting survey: https://schoolofpodcasting.com/survey School of Podcasting (coupon code LISTENER): https://schoolofpodcasting.com PodPage: https://podpage.com Pocket Casts: https://pocketcasts.com Mentioned in this episode: Live Appearacves November 7th Podindy.com use the coupon code sop - Whiteland Indiana November 12th at 3PM Daniel J. Lewis will be doing a Demo of Podgagement. Brought to you by Podpage.com Register at schoolofpodcasting.com/where Where Will I Be? Started a Podcast But You Feel Stuck? You're already podcasting, but you feel stuck. I get it. Let's fix that. Join me inside the School of Podcasting and let's get your show growing again. Go to schoolofpodcasting.com, code LISTENER. Thirty-day money-back guarantee. School of Podcasting Podpage Makes Interview Shows Eaier Podpage works any scheduling tool We have a guest intake form for collecting information. That information can be automatically tied to their episode. We can notify the guest their episode is live We make a page showing all of your guests (to boost credibility) You can now feature guests on your guest page Start your 14 Day Trial by going to podpage.com/preview Podpage Question of the Month: What is a "Newbie Podcaster" Poll Question: What makes someone a “newbie podcaster”? Is it how long they’ve been podcasting or how many episodes they’ve published? Is it something else? How would you define a newbie podcaster? Leave your answer at schoolofpodcasting.com/question by November 27th and don't forget to mention your show and your website address so I can link to it in the show notes. (Please try to keep them under 5 minutes if you can). Question of the Month