School of Podcasting: Expert Tips for Launching and Growing Your Podcast

Stop Researching, Start Doing (This Time I Brought Receipts) Be honest: how many podcast growth videos have you watched this month, and how many of those ideas have you actually tried? I get it. I have courses I've bought and never opened. But a few weeks ago I challenged you to quit swinging for the grand slam and just make solid contact, and this time I'm back with proof. My buddy Mark actually did the work, and his downloads jumped 17% in five weeks. I also share the free, 42-second habit that's sending people to my website every week, the five-minute move that got me mentioned on another podcast without even asking, and some surprising data on what happened to shows that added video in Apple Podcasts. If you've been stuck in research mode, this is your nudge to press play and then go do something. Mark Did It: 17% Growth in Five Weeks Over the last several weeks, we've been running growth masterminds inside the School of Podcasting, talking strictly about strategies to grow your show. Plenty of people listened. Mark Lawley from Practical Prepping actually put them to work. Buzzsprout sends him a weekly download count, and over five weeks his numbers grew about 17%, with a lot of people going back into his back catalog. I'll take that all day. Find, Click, Act To grow your reach, remember the order things happen in: They have to find you first. That means a good episode title that's a promise of what's inside, not clickbait, and show notes full of helpful words (preferably ones that came out of your mouth, not AI's). People find you through word of mouth, paid promotion, or organic search, and Google loves good words. Then they have to click. Once they land on your website, don't make them dig for episodes. Then they have to act. Tell a friend, buy your product, visit your sponsor, whatever your "why" is. My Social Media Experiment You can't manage what you don't track. I knew some people wouldn't want to pay for a tool (I LOVE Switchy and it's only $39 for a lifetime deal), so I used Short.io, which gives you 100 trackable links for free and takes about 42 seconds per link. I expected next to nothing from social. Instead, posting once to three times a week, I was getting around 40 clicks a week. That's roughly 160 a month and about 1,920 a year, from less than five minutes per post across Bluesky, Twitter, LinkedIn, and Facebook. Clicks aren't downloads, and nobody's told me yet that they found the show on social. But before I tried this, I had zero clicks to my website. If what you're doing now isn't growing your audience, try something. Stop waiting for the perfect opportunity while week after week goes by. Are You Afraid of Success? Sometimes it's not fear of failure holding you back. You already launched. It might be fear of success. Here's what I hear, and my answer to each: "If I get popular, people will criticize me." People in line behind you at Walmart are already judging you. "Who am I to be listened to?" You've done hard things before. You have life experience worth sharing. "What if I disappoint people?" You already do, on a regular basis. That's life. "What if my hobby turns into a job?" It's your show. You decide. "Then I'll have to monetize." No, you won't. If you don't want sponsors, don't have sponsors. "What if I try everything and it still doesn't grow?" You've already started to grow. We just want to throw some gasoline on it. Other things get in the way too: perfectionism that keeps you researching forever, goals that are too vague or too big, strategies that don't fit your values (that's okay, you should have values), and plain old discomfort with being visible. I once wanted to refund a client because every option I offered got "I'm not doing that." The Five-Minute Strategy: Leave a Voicemail If you listen to a show similar to yours, leave it a voicemail. Neal Veglio did this on the Pod News Weekly Review, and he always brought value. He made me think or laugh every time. So when I was telling people to find someone who shares their audience, I went and found Neal's show, cherry-picked episodes because his titles were so good (there's another strategy), and mentioned him on my show. Without me asking, he returned the favor on Podmastery:Podcasting Insights. We haven't even figured out what we're doing together yet, and we've already cross-promoted. Total time: less than five minutes. It reminded me of the Podcasters' Roundtable with Ray Ortega and Daniel J. Lewis. They're technically my competition, and also some of my favorite people on the planet. How I Got Into the Hall of Fame I was asked this week how I got into the Podcasting Hall of Fame. My answer is a joke that isn't a joke: I didn't quit. Others did. You can't make a dent in anyone's life if you quit. There was a time you didn't know how to button a shirt, tie your shoes, or walk. You learned by doing it, and sometimes doing it wrong. As Zig Ziglar said, you don't have to be great to start, but you have to start to be great. Figure out who your audience is, go where they are, make friends, and tell them about your show. That's Podcast Growth 101. Using Podcorn? Remove Your Prefix Now Podcorn is going away (I believe sometime in early November). If you added their tracking prefix at your media host, every one of your episodes will stop working when they shut down unless you remove it. Do it now so you don't wake up to zero downloads and a pile of "I can't download your show" emails. Are You Even Close to Being Ready For Ads? While you're in there: when I worked at Libsyn, I'd see shows with 317 downloads running three or four prefixes for companies that require 10,000. Every prefix is one more piece of technology that can fail and take your files down with it. Find out the minimum you need to qualify, and add the prefix when you get there. Does Adding Video in Apple Podcasts Help? Rob Walsh from Captivate always brings the receipts, and he makes stats fun. He looked at shows that opted into Apple's video program in May and compared their August Apple Podcasts numbers to their average for February through April: 15% went up 32% stayed flat (within plus or minus 15%) 53% went down That's about an 85% chance your Apple numbers stay flat or drop. The theory he heard: listeners saw the show had video and went to watch it on YouTube instead. His advice, and ours from the start: if you want to do video, start on YouTube. If it doesn't add too much stress to your workflow, keep going and maybe add it to Apple. What makes me sad is people who added video, got overwhelmed, and dropped the podcast instead of the video. All of the Podcast Movement presentations, including Rob's, are on the Podcast Movement YouTube channel. Podcasting in Six Weeks Is Starting Soon If you want to launch a podcast in 2027, my free Podcasting in Six Weeks course starts in a couple of weeks. We'll work our way around the holidays. Sign up at podcastinginsixweeks.com. Bonus: The Wendy's Story Stick around after the outro for a story about a hamburger order that went wrong several times (hamburger, not cheeseburger), me losing my patience, and why I went back to the counter on my way out to apologize. Try saying you're sorry. It makes you feel better, and the other person will probably thank you. Want to grow your show like Mark? Head to schoolofpodcasting.com, click Join, and use the coupon code LISTENER for a monthly, quarterly, or yearly subscription. You get courses, community, and one-on-one coaching, backed by a 30-day money-back guarantee. The website runs on PodPage. Websites Mentioned School of Podcasting (coupon code LISTENER): https://schoolofpodcasting.com Practical Prepping (Mark Lawley): https://practicalprepping.info P3 Media Group (Mark's editing services): https://p3mediagroup.net Short.io (free click tracker): https://short.io Podcasting in Six Weeks (free course): https://podcastinginsixweeks.com PodPage: https://podpage.com Podcast Movement on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Usbj2xiCzTM&list=PLBz7fpQ0lT3I Podmastery: Podcasting Insights : https://podmastery.co/ Mentioned in this episode: Join the School of Podcasting Mark from Practical Prepping had been podcasting for a while, but after joining the School of Podcasting, his podcast grew at a faster rate. His Facebook group has over 30,000 members! Join the School of Podcasting and get access to: Step-by-step tutorials An amazing podcast community Unlimited One-On-One Coaching Join today worry-free with a 30-day money-back guarantee! School of Podcasting Live Appearances I loved connecting with my audience. Here are the next events I will be at: November 11: Podindy.com (use the coupon code SOP) February 23-26, 2027: National Religious Broadcasters nrb.org I'd love to speak at your event. Go to schoolofpodcasting.com/contact Where Will I Be? Podpage Makes Interview Shows Eaier Podpage works any scheduling tool We have a guest intake form for collecting information. That information can be automatically tied to their episode. We can notify the guest their episode is live We make a page showing all of your guests (to boost credibility) You can now feature guests on your guest page Start your 14 Day Trial by going to podpage.com/preview Podpage Question of the Month This months' question is, " How long did it take before you felt like you had "real listeners" — and what made you realize it? If you don't feel it now, what would make it feel "real"? I need your answer by October 23rd. Don't forget to mention your show, your tagline, and your website. Go to schooolofpodcasting.com/question Question of the Month

A listener once told me they hoped I'd quit teaching altogether. Another told me, in the nicest way possible, that the curmudgeon was showing up a little too early these days. Only one of those helped my show. This month's Question of the Month was all about feedback: what's the most constructive feedback you've ever received, and what's the most destructive? A few listeners sent in their answers, I share mine, and to prove how much feedback matters, I dig up some embarrassing basement recordings from a much younger Dave Jackson. Let's get into it. Why Aren't You Getting Feedback? It honestly boggles my mind how many podcasters never ask for feedback and then wonder why their show isn't growing. Think of it like making someone a sandwich. You can ask, "I've got baloney, smoked turkey, or salami. Which do you want?" and make something they'll actually eat. Or you can hand everyone salami and say "tell your friends," while half of them are quietly thinking, "I hate salami." Ralph Estep Jr.: "Go Hire a Speaking Coach" Ralph, the content creator's accountant, says the best feedback he ever got was to hire a speaking coach. People (me included) told him he sounded robotic on his show, nothing like the Ralph you meet on a Zoom call or in person. He found a coach, and it changed the way he does everything. On the other side, he's had people tell him they hope he gets hit by a bus or struck by lightning over his religious views. He's not taking that advice. His point: when you get feedback, consider who it's coming from and whether it makes sense to act on it. York Campbell: The Name Was the Problem York's show used to be called Poetic Earthlings, and people kept assuming it was about poetry. It's actually short sci-fi stories: time travel, alien worlds, hyperdimensional creatures, and a few conspiracy theories. A fellow podcaster suggested Welcome to Earth Stories, and once he made the change, the attention and downloads followed. As York put it, sometimes you fall in love with a clever name because of what it means to you, and never stop to ask whether anyone else will understand it. Timothy Kimo Brien: "You Called My Baby Ugly" Tim submitted his old show, KDOI Podcasting (Kimo's Den of Iniquity), to the Podcast Rodeo Show. I said it sounded like a radio station, and the full name sounded like... something else entirely. Tim was not a happy camper. Later, sitting at a podcast conference and hearing someone talk about making your show's title clear, he asked himself what his show actually does: it's about creating art. Hello, Create Art Podcast. He's gone from roughly 200–300 downloads a month to between 1,000 and 1,500. He says it's not necessarily because of the name change. I say probably. Either way, it helped him focus on what the show is really about. My Best Feedback: The Curmudgeon Is Showing Before Podfest even started, my buddy Steve Stewart asked me to lunch and asked if I was open to notes. I grew up professionally with "constant improvement" on the walls of my first job, so of course I was. He told me the curmudgeon was coming out a little quicker than it used to. That was gold, because it was something I could control and fix. And it came from someone whose opinion I value, someone who'll tell me when something's good and when it isn't. Knowledge is only power when you act on it. My First Bad Review (and What Good Feedback Looks Like) In 2010, five years into podcasting, I got my first negative review: basically "not good, not enough thought, it's a commercial for bad services." It knocked me back on my heels, but there was nothing I could fix, because it never said why. (This is why I now say you're not a real podcaster until you get a one-star review.) Compare that to a 2017 review from a listener who wanted to hear the show but said the mix had a hiss or too much treble. That's great feedback. It's specific, and I could have adjusted it (I was using the Electro-Voice RE320 back then and liked my S's and T's crisp). The only problem is he should have sent it to me directly. A few things to keep in mind: The person might be having a bad day. After decades in customer support, I've seen people apologize later once they calmed down. Ask yourself: do they have a point? If so, can you fix it? Make it easy for feedback to reach you. A review isn't a direct line. Save the nice messages. On days you don't feel like recording, they remind you people are listening. Reviews are social proof, but they don't help you get found. Apple has said so. When Feedback Goes Wrong: The Podcast Rodeo Show In 2017 I launched the Podcast Rodeo Show, where I'd grab a random podcast and give a real first impression. (Half of YouTube is reaction videos now. I'm taking credit for inventing it. I didn't.) One episode, a host opened by sharing a string of genuinely awful personal experiences, all within the first few minutes, and never said what the show was about, who it was for, or even that it was an interview. My feedback was all logic: what's in it for the listener? As Erik K. Johnson says, nobody gets on a bus if they don't know where it's going. Don't bury the lead. People don't care about you until you give them a reason to care. She emailed and attacked me personally, said I was cruel and should never call myself a teacher. It hit me hard enough that I worried the show was hurting my brand, and it's part of why the show eventually ended. Listening back now, I could have been more compassionate. But when I asked my audience whether they wanted a kinder, gentler version, they very loudly said no. So the show evolved (a little less "listen and react," a little more "what do we want them to learn") and got rebranded, first to Podcast Hot Seat (people said that sounded painful) and now to Fix My Podcast. Scott Orr: How to Take Hard Feedback Now compare that to Scott Orr, an award-winning journalist and host of Code 3 – The Firefighters Podcast. Before one review, I reached out and said, respectfully, "Scott, you sound like you're drunk." He replied that he didn't have a drinking problem. He has Parkinson's. Instead of getting angry, Scott took the feedback and now opens every episode by saying he won't let Parkinson's stop him. When Scott later came on the Podcast Review Show, Erik K. Johnson pointed out that addressing it up front is disarming. Listeners stop wondering what's going on and focus on what Scott's saying, not how he's saying it. Honest? Yes. Awkward? Yes. Helpful? Absolutely. You Can't See Your Own Typos My favorite example: I once had a typo in the School of Podcasting's own tagline ("plan, launch, grow, and monetize") and didn't catch it. Sometimes you just don't see it. Young Dave Jackson's Basement Tapes At School of Podcasting we hold listener parties, where members listen to an episode together and give feedback in real time. Some people cringe at the idea. So here's my confession: in my twenties I was basically Ross from Friends, recording angry '80s rock in my basement. Guitar, bass, keys, drum machine, and, unfortunately, all the vocals. I'd hit play and leave the room while friends listened. Their feedback? "Who's playing the piano?" Me. "Who's on bass?" Me. Nobody said a word about the music. Just recently, my brother found that CD and told me the songs and singing weren't that bad, but the mix was horrendous. Thirty years later. A little late. Here's the scary part: you're going to be judged anyway. Wouldn't it make more sense to be judged in a way where you can capture the feedback and make changes before you publish? The Sidewalk Lesson A few years ago on the Fourth of July, I fell on an uneven sidewalk while looking at my phone and still have the scars on my knees. That was feedback too, just the painful kind. If someone had warned me about that raised block of cement ahead of time, I'd have saved myself a lot of trouble. That's what good feedback does. Give me feedback on this show: head to schoolofpodcasting.com/survey and tell me how I can make it better. I'm doing this show for you. Want help growing your show? Go to schoolofpodcasting.com and use the coupon code LISTENER for a monthly, quarterly, or yearly subscription, backed by a 30-day money-back guarantee. Next week: one thing I did in under five minutes that put me directly in front of my target audience. Follow at schoolofpodcasting.com/follow so you get it the minute it drops. Contributors & Links Ralph Estep Jr., the Content Creator's Accountant: https://ralphestepjr.com Becoming Financially Confident (live weekdays, 11:30 a.m. ET): https://becomingfinanciallyconfident.com York Campbell, Welcome to Earth Stories: https://welcometoearthstories.com Timothy Kimo Brien, Create Art Podcast: https://createartpodcast.com Steve Stewart, Podcast Editors Academy: https://stevestewart.me Scott Orr, Code 3 – The Firefighters Podcast: https://code3podcast.com Erik K. Johnson, Podcast Talent Coach: https://podcasttalentcoach.com Also Mentioned Fix My Podcast (get your show audited): https://fixmypodcast.com Podcast Rodeo Show archive: https://podcastrodeoshow.com Podcast Review Show: https://www.podcastreviewshow.com School of Podcasting survey: https://schoolofpodcasting.com/survey School of Podcasting (coupon code LISTENER): https://schoolofpodcasting.com PodPage: https://podpage.com Pocket Casts: https://pocketcasts.com Mentioned in this episode: Live Appearances I loved connecting with my audience. Here are the next events I will be at: November 11: Podindy.com (use the coupon code SOP) February 23-26, 2027: National Religious Broadcasters nrb.org I'd love to speak at your event. Go to schoolofpodcasting.com/contact Where Will I Be? Started a Podcast But You Feel Stuck? You're already podcasting, but you feel stuck. I get it. Let's fix that. Join me inside the School of Podcasting and let's get your show growing again. Go to schoolofpodcasting.com, code LISTENER. Thirty-day money-back guarantee. School of Podcasting Podpage Makes Interview Shows Eaier Podpage works any scheduling tool We have a guest intake form for collecting information. That information can be automatically tied to their episode. We can notify the guest their episode is live We make a page showing all of your guests (to boost credibility) You can now feature guests on your guest page Start your 14 Day Trial by going to podpage.com/preview Podpage Question of the Month This months' question is, " How long did it take before you felt like you had "real listeners" — and what made you realize it? If you don't feel it now, what would make it feel "real"? I need your answer by October 23rd. Don't forget to mention your show, your tagline, and your website. Go to schooolofpodcasting.com/question Question of the Month

Podcast Movement 2026 Reflections + Lessons from Two People Who Run Podcast Events I just got back from Podcast Movement, and a lot of you have been asking whether it was still worth going now that it's under new ownership, in a new location, with a whole new format. Short answer: I'm definitely going back. In this episode I walk through what changed, what I loved, what I'd tweak, and what Tom Webster's data says about where podcasting really stands. Then I sit down with two guys who have actually done it, Marc Ronick of Empowered Podcasting and Dr. Brad Miller of Pod Indy, to get the behind-the-scenes story of running a podcast event. If you've ever had that little voice in your head saying "maybe I should start my own meetup or conference," this one is for you. Podcast Movement 2026: Was It Worth It? I went down the list, old Podcast Movement versus new. The hotel and the cost. It used to be at Gaylord hotels, which run $1,000 a night, where the burgers are $30 apiece and you never leave the building. This year was BYOH: bring your own hotel. I stayed two nights at a Holiday Inn Express for $400 a night. Still pricey, but nowhere near the Gaylord. Tickets were also much cheaper because they weren't paying for that hotel arrangement. Point to the new Podcast Movement. The venue. Picture a small theater (think House of Blues) that had a baby with a cruise ship: three floors, and you can look down at the main stage from the top. The rooms were narrower, so the back row was farther from the stage than I was used to. I also learned I need new glasses, because the giant screen was split in two and I couldn't read the slides. Sessions ran with silent-disco-style headphones: turn the dial to yellow or green and you hear that stage. The strange part is that people talk while someone is presenting a few feet away. It went against everything in my body, but it works, and I could network the whole time. My one suggestion: turn on the house lights during networking breaks. When you have 40 minutes to meet people and can't see who's in the room, it's a problem (unless it's Rob Greenley, who is six foot six inches). Networking and the parties. PodPage hosted a small meetup, and I walked over to the Buzzsprout meetup too. Both were places where you could actually talk, with no blaring music. I've talked to Dan Franks, who helps plan Podcast Movement, and he says they tell every sponsor that people want to talk, not have their ears bleed. Nice to see it work. New York City. I'll miss Dallas and Chicago, but it's supposedly staying in New York to make it easier for international attendees. The food was a win, and I never felt unsafe walking around Hell's Kitchen. I ate at Cubbies and at McGee's, which I didn't realize until halfway through is tied to How I Met Your Mother. A smarter schedule. Monday and Tuesday were geared toward the business and advertising side, and Thursday and Friday were for indie podcasters. That means indie folks can save on the hotel bill. The talks are going online. They're putting the presentations on the Podcast Movement YouTube channel for free. I'm looking forward to catching the ones I missed, including Lou Mangiello and Rob Walch's talk about video. What I Learned from Tom Webster If you only see one talk at a conference, make it Tom Webster's. Here's what stuck with me: Podcasting has gone flat. It used to grow at least 3 to 5% a year, occasionally 7%. This past year it barely moved. It's still growing, but by a very small amount. Where people listen. In a survey of roughly 5,000 podcast consumers, the top three places were YouTube, Spotify, and Netflix. Not Apple, Pocket Casts, or Overcast. Where I disagree. YouTube and Spotify are open to anyone, so I get why people call them podcasts. Netflix isn't open. They have to choose you, and there's no RSS feed. For me, a podcast is an RSS feed with audio or video in it. Tom's Walmart analogy. Look at the CD section: a tiny collection of only the biggest hits (Back in Black, Rumors), nothing like a dedicated record store. His suggestion was that we should promote podcast-specific apps. My favorite is Pocket Casts: it plays audio and video, it has bookmarks (that's how I grab the clips I play on the show), and it has a web version. Podcast Standards Project: PodRoll Is Coming I sat in on my first Podcast Standards Project meeting. PodRoll, from the Podcasting 2.0 spec, is the modern version of a blogroll: a list of shows you personally recommend, living in your feed. Because feeds are public, anyone can see who's recommended most. That's human recommendations, not an algorithm you try to trick. Ask your media host if they support it (if not move ton one that does). The group is also looking at adding location, so you could find podcasts in your area. Video: Do You Have To? Some people insist you have to do video. Others said not only do you not have to, but the shows that added it didn't see much benefit beyond more work, cost, and time. In Apple's video spotlight, the shows featured were already big. I'm looking forward to Rob Walch's full presentation, because that's exactly the kind of "what's working and what's not" you go to a conference to learn. Small Events vs. Big Ones Podcast Movement had probably over 1,000 people. Empowered Podcasting had a little over 100 (about 150 this year), and Pod Indy will land somewhere between 50 and 100. Podfest usually draws a couple thousand. My favorite kind of event is single-track: everyone hears the same content, so when you step into the hallway you all have something to talk about. Interview: Running a Podcast Event with Marc Ronick and Dr. Brad Miller Why they started. Brad spent 43 years as a pastor and was a Christian concert promoter, so he'd seen the power of live events. After connecting with his local podcasting group in Indianapolis, he launched Pod Indy in 2023 (I keynoted the first one), and the fourth is coming up. Mark had been podcasting as long as I have, and didn't step into a conference until about five years ago. He felt a little out of place at the big ones, so he built a place where he'd feel comfortable. Small is a feature. Mark went in wanting Empowered Podcasting to become the next Podcast Movement. After the first one (2024, under 100 people) he noticed magic in a smaller, more intimate room, where people were learning from each other outside the sessions. He'd cap it around 200. Brad goes deep on one track, one day. The biggest surprises: You can't do it alone. Mark thought he could run it almost by himself. He carried the financial and emotional load, burned out after year two, and nearly canceled three times. Jason and Rich stepped in to save it, and he made them business partners. Ticket sales come late. In Mark's second year, only about 20 tickets sold before the final month. Brad says two-thirds of tickets arrive in the last month. This year's sales were smoother for both, and both say credibility builds over time. Bring enough lead time. Brad's first event had only three months, and he bit off more than he could chew. He also lost money using a business center, so he moved it to his church, where he has a studio, and kept it to one day with no hotel block. Hotel blocks. If you don't fill the rooms, you pay anyway. Mark's went fine this year because speakers and a good share of attendees needed rooms. Money, honestly. Brad started by deciding what he could afford to lose (he did lose some the first year, and calls it an investment). Mark admits he wasn't careful with money in the first two years and took on some debt. Both credit their wives, Debbie and Amy, for keeping them grounded and for believing in the vision. Advice if you're thinking about it: Mark: Be okay with however many people show up. Start with a few who believe in your message. If they have a good experience, they come back and become your advocates. Brad: Build transformative relationships one on one, then a few together. Have coffee or lunch with someone, or start online, before deciding whether to do a formal event. Both: Virtual is great, but nothing replaces being around like-minded people in person. Choosing speakers. Mark's pet peeve is speaker submissions that are obviously written entirely by AI: "I love using AI, but that's a lazy move, and I don't know that I want a lazy speaker on one of my stages." (My favorite line on this: if you can't take the time to write it, produce it, or record it, why should I take the time to consume it?) Brad recruits speakers through personal relationships instead of an application process. Themes so far: podcasting as a business, AI, and this year taking your podcast (and your life) to the next level with keynote speaker Cliff Ravenscraft. Pod Indy: November 7, 2026 When and where: November 7, 2026, in Whiteland, Indiana (suburban Indianapolis), 9 a.m. to 4 p.m. Tickets: $37 in person, $27 live stream. Discount: use code SOP for $5 off. On the lineup: Cliff Ravenscraft (keynote), John Lee Dumas (video), Craig on AI, and me. My Takeaway If you try to start with 1,000 people, you'll burn up. Start with what you have, where you are. John Lee Dumas's first meetup reportedly had about five people at an In-N-Out Burger, and he's now a legit millionaire. I even thought I could pull off something in Cleveland or Akron, then thought about all the work and decided: not now. Remember that "no" is often "not now." If you're thinking about starting a podcast, head to schoolofpodcasting.com and use the coupon code LISTENER when you sign up for a monthly, quarterly, or yearly subscription. It comes with a 30-day money-back guarantee. My website is courtesy of PodPage. Links & Resources Mentioned School of Podcasting: https://schoolofpodcasting.com (coupon code: LISTENER) PodPage: https://podpage.com Empowered Podcasting Conference (Mark Ronick): https://empoweredpodcasting.com Ironic Media (Mark Ronick): https://ironicmedia.com Pod Indy (Dr. Brad Miller): https://podindy.com (coupon code: SOP) Podcast Movement: https://podcastmovement.com Pocket Casts: https://pocketcasts.com Podcast Standards Project (Pod Roll): https://podcaststandards.org Mentioned in this episode: Live Appearances I loved connecting with my audience. Here are the next events I will be at: November 11: Podindy.com (use the coupon code SOP) February 23-26, 2027: National Religious Broadcasters nrb.org I'd love to speak at your event. Go to schoolofpodcasting.com/contact Where Will I Be? Build the Website You Want with Podpage Podpage is flexible. If you want to promote something you can put it in the sidebar, on the front page, or at the bottom of every episode (not to mention the navigation bar, the footer and more). Podpage is designed specifically for podcasts. Quit trying to squeeze your podcast into a website made for a yoga studio. Start your free trial at podpage.com/preview Podpage What Does Worry Free Podcasting Look Like? It means not having to worry about buying the wrong equipment. It means not worrying about wasting your money - you can cancel anytime during your first 30 days and get your money back. It means getting one-on-one coaching with a TEACHER who wants you to learn and grow and not upsell you on 20 more products. You can do this. I help podcasters. It's what I do, and I can't wait to see what we do together. School of Podcasting Question of the Month: Constructive and Deconstructive Feedback This month we are talking feefdback. What is the most constructive or deconstructive (or both) piece of feedback you've received. If you haven't asked for feedback, why not? I need your answer by September 25th (late entries won't be accepted) go to www.schoolofpodcasting.com/question and be sure to mention your show and your website address so I can link to it in the show notes. Question of the Month

A few years ago I accidentally hit a guy on the golf course. I'm not proud of it — although it did bank in almost perfectly off his calf on its way toward the hole. But the swing that caused it taught me something I haven't stopped thinking about: my brother told me to quit trying to kill the ball and just make good contact. Looking at podcasting, it turns into the best explanation I've found for why so many podcasts stop growing. If you've ever chased a bigger download number, wondered why nobody signs up for the thing you're selling despite having a decent audience, or just felt like you're doing everything and getting nowhere, keep listening — because the fix isn't a bigger swing. It's Not About a Big Audience. It's About the Right One. I talk to podcasters constantly who are chasing the same fantasy: flip a switch, get 10,000 downloads overnight. I get it — I've wanted that too. But it doesn't exist unless you've got a massive budget, and even then it doesn't always work. Quick, honest question: who won American Idol season six? They had a million people watching. Doesn't mean you remember them, and it doesn't mean they connected. Here's the math that changed how I think about this: if you ran your show as a $30-a-month membership, you'd only need one person willing to pay to break even (assuming you're spending $30/month). But not just any listener does that — it has to be someone connected to you. So the real target was never more downloads. It's finding roughly 500 right-fit people who trust you. Downloads don't join a membership. Connected people do. What a Musician Taught Me About Connection I study podcasters, but I also study musicians, authors, and YouTubers, because we're all in the same business — entertaining people with our art. One of my favorite channels right now is Mary Spender's. She's a musician, not a podcaster, but what she said recently hit me right in the chest: "We've spent years treating streaming numbers as though they measure fandom, but perhaps they often measure familiarity instead. Millions of streams doesn't necessarily become hundreds of people willing to leave the house on a Wednesday evening. Maybe we've become incredibly good at measuring attention, but forgotten how to measure connection." Swap "streams" for "downloads" and "tickets" for "memberships," and she's describing exactly what's happening in podcasting. Mary lost £12,000 on her last tour. Instead of giving up, she changed her approach: "Not to chase the biggest room, to chase the right room. Not to impress the most people, to matter to the people who choose to be there." Knowledge is knowing that. Wisdom is acting on it — and she is, booking her own shows again, more intentionally this time (And enjoying it more). How to Actually Get in Front of the Right People We've been brainstorming growth ideas in the School of Podcasting community, and the point was never to do all of them — it's to pick one, test it, and measure it. A few examples: Guesting on other podcasts that share your audience — less friction, since that audience already knows how to listen to a podcast. Podcast swaps, shout-outs, or a 30-second promo trade. Speaking engagements or workshops. Writing for a publication your audience already reads. Your own blog and SEO — no, it's not dead. Partnerships that go beyond sponsorship, where you actually help each other promote. Word of mouth — which drives roughly 70% of podcast growth, and yet almost nobody deliberately asks for it. Ask your audience, specifically and simply, to share the show with one friend. Local, unglamorous options: I used to slip a business card into a book on the page matching my age, in a genre my audience would read. Free. Slow. It worked, a little at a time. None of these flip a switch. They're singles, not grand slams. You build an audience one person at a time. Would you spend 5 minutes to get 36 people to your site each week? How I Found Out What's Actually Working: Click Trackers Here's the part that surprised me. I started putting a click tracker (I use Switchy) on every link I post — social, LinkedIn, wherever. Takes about 41 seconds per link. What I found: my email list outperformed every social platform by double digits, while everything else stayed in single digits. One email drove 36 clicks in a week — times four weeks, that's potentially 144 people who might actually listen, follow, or tell a friend. And it cost me less than five minutes. Would you spend 5 minutes a week to get 36 people to your site each week? Again, this is not the 10,000 switch. It's one strategy, and leaves you lots of time to try others. The click isn't the whole story, though — a click is still just attention, the same thing Mary warned about. What matters is what happens after it: did that traffic turn into an email subscriber, a membership signup, a real connection? Track that, and you'll quickly find out which platforms are worth your time and which ones you can quietly stop feeding. (If you want a free option instead of a paid one, Short.io does the same basic job.) So the "extra" time you spent using click trackers, you get back by identifying strategies that don't work for you. Two People Who Grew by Showing Up Consistently, Not Loudly In the early days of podcasting, Steve Stewart (Podcast Editors Academy) built recognition for years by simply leaving comments on other people's shows — for free. Eventually every show about podcasting seemed to mention him. Neil Veglio did something similar on Pod News Weekly Review, showing up consistently with sharp, specific insight until listeners started recognizing his name. Neither of them flipped a switch. They just kept showing up in the right rooms. I plan on doing some sort of collab with Neil in the future. Ask Your Audience Who They Actually Are If you're just starting out and don't have an audience yet, go find where your future audience already hangs out — YouTube comments on a similar channel's most-viewed video, or Amazon reviews for books on your topic (skip the 5-star and 1-star reviews; the 4-star ones that explain what would've made it a 5 are where the real feedback lives). And if you already have an audience: ask them directly what they want, more than once, and explain why it helps them to tell you. Track the link to your survey the same way you track everything else — if 12 people click but only 6 finish it, that's useful data too. The Bottom Line Hope is not a strategy. Neither is waiting for the 10,000-download switch — I've been looking for one since 2007, and it doesn't exist. Growth doesn't come from a bigger swing: more effort, more platforms, more reach. It comes from solid contact with the right people, and you won't know what's solid contact until you measure it. If you want help building the kind of connection that actually turns into a membership, that's exactly what I do at School of Podcasting. Head to schoolofpodcasting.com and use coupon code LISTENER for a monthly, quarterly, or yearly subscription — backed by a 30-day money-back guarantee. Links & Resources Mentioned School of Podcasting — https://schoolofpodcasting.com (coupon code: LISTENER) PodPage — https://podpage.com Switchy — Click tracker with lifetime one time payment. (aff) Short.io — https://short.io (free click-tracker alternative) Steve Stewart / Podcast Editors Academy — stevestewart.me Ask the Podcast Coach - Weekly live show with free podcast consulting. Also mentioned by name on the episode, but no specific link was given on air — worth dropping in your own before publishing: Big Podcast Playbook (David Hooper) Pod Mastery (Neil Veglio) Buzzsprout (ad platform) Pocket Casts (app) Mentioned In This Episode Join the School of Podcasting Community Profit From Your Podcast Book Power of Podcasting Network Dave's YouTube Channel Dave's Podcasting Newsletter Buy Dave a Coffee Put Dave In Your Pocket Where Will Dave Be? Question of the Month Mentioned in this episode: Question of the Month: Constructive and Deconstructive Feedback This month we are talking feefdback. What is the most constructive or deconstructive (or both) piece of feedback you've received. If you haven't asked for feedback, why not? I need your answer by September 25th (late entries won't be accepted) go to www.schoolofpodcasting.com/question and be sure to mention your show and your website address so I can link to it in the show notes. Question of the Month Live Appearances I loved connecting with my audience. Here are the next events I will be at: November 11: Podindy.com (use the coupon code SOP) February 23-26, 2027: National Religious Broadcasters nrb.org I'd love to speak at your event. Go to schoolofpodcasting.com/contact Where Will I Be? Unlock Exclusive Insights: Subscribe to 'Podcasting Observations' Newsletter! Get a look into the world of podcasting like never before with "Podcasting Observations," your go-to source for trends, tips, and transformative insights tailored just for podcasters. You also get "behind the scenes" info from the School of Podcasting Don't miss out on staying ahead of the game—join the 1700+ people who are already reading Podcasting Observations today! Podcasting Observations Don't Wait to Level Up Your Show Thinking about starting a podcast—or already 300 episodes in? Skip the rookie mistakes, save money, and level up your show with the School of Podcasting with Dave Jackson, where you get hands-on feedback, one-on-one support, and practical advice that actually improves your podcast. Not sure? Just ask Krista and Mark from practicalprepping.info Then join the School of Podcasting at www.schoolofpodcasting.com/join (or use the link below) School of Podcasting Give Your Podcast A Home When you look at our podcasting pieces, your media host is the engine. But your website is the home. It’s where your audience learns who you are, explores your episodes, and decides to subscribe. At Podpage, we build podcast websites that are fast, reliable, and designed to convert visitors into listeners. Every episode is automatically published, SEO-optimized, and structured for growth—so you can focus on creating, not managing your site. If your media host powers your podcast, Podpage gives it a place to live—and a place to grow. 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What I Learned (and Relearned) at Empowered Podcasting Conference I got triggered at a podcasting conference last week, and honestly? I almost jumped out of my chair. Someone in the room said something that stopped me cold, and it's become one of the biggest lessons I'm bringing back to you this week — along with a story about a $230 million quarterback who won't take feedback, why "cheating off the smart kid" with AI is quietly ruining your podcast, and the subscription I found on my own bank statement that I'd been paying for and not even using. This episode is a mashup of my talk at Empowered Podcasting Conference 3 in Charlotte and everything I picked up just from being in the room. Let's get into it. It's Your Show. Own It. This is the one that made me want to stand up. Someone in a session said, "Well, I can't ask my guest to keep their answers short." Yes, you can. It's your show. If you're doing interviews, you're the goalie — it's your job to keep anything that doesn't serve your audience out of the episode. And if a guest rambles, that's usually on the host, not the guest. Give your guest a target before you hit record: who you're talking to, and whether you want short, medium, or long answers. A guest who doesn't get a target from the host should ask for one. Own your show. Set the boundaries. Your audience is who you're protecting. What Actually Makes Content Remarkable My talk was about what makes a podcast good, and I focused on what makes any content remarkable. I walked through a few movies to prove it: Saving Private Ryan — that D-Day opening wasn't new information (we all knew WWII was brutal), it was a new way of presenting it. People talked about it because nobody had seen it shown like that. The Sixth Sense — a tiny budget that beat big blockbusters like The Lone Ranger because of one twist: we don't find out Bruce Willis's character is dead until the end. People walked out of the theater and called a friend to say "you have to see this." That's the goal — content remarkable enough that it spreads on word of mouth alone. Gone with the Wind — a 1939 movie with an actual intermission, and people still talk about the burning of Atlanta (a real fire on the studio backlot, no CGI) and that last line — "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn" — which had audiences clutching their pearls. Again, something people had not seen before. Star Wars — I saw it eleven times as a kid, and even when half the theater had already seen it multiple times, everybody still cheered when the Death Star blew up. That's not just about the special effects. That's about how it made people feel. A podcast episode is content plus delivery — and delivery is you: your attitude, your confidence, your life skills. My rule of thumb for what makes a good episode: laugh, cry, think, groan, educate, or entertain. Save them time or save them money. Try to hit more than one of those in every episode. The Most Underrated Skill in Podcasting: Listening Everyone assumes the top skill is a great voice or being funny. It's not. It's your ability to listen — to your audience, and to feedback. Case in point: The Cleveland Brown's quarterback, the one we paid $230 million despite a stack of off-field allegations. He's not good at his job. When fans booed him, his response was basically "you guys don't like me" — not "I need to get better," not "tell me more." He made it personal instead of taking it as information. I hear the same thing constantly from podcasters. I'll offer to help someone grow their show, ask which episode they want me to listen to, and they'll say "oh, it's not the content." If you're not willing to actually hear feedback, don't be surprised when your show doesn't grow. The AI Shortcut That's Quietly Killing Your Voice This is the one I need you to sit with. There's a real strategy going around called the outlier strategy: if you and a competitor share an audience, and one of their episodes way outperforms their normal numbers, you make your own version of that topic. Legitimate strategy. Here's where it goes sideways — people are grabbing the transcript of that outlier video, feeding it to AI, and saying "rewrite this in my voice." And the whole reason they're doing a podcast in the first place is to be seen as a thought leader — using someone else's thoughts. It might work about 80% of the time (I'm making that number up), and that missing 20% is the part that's actually, uniquely you. Mark Maron said it best: "You're not thinking your own thoughts. You're a hack with an excuse for why you're failing." I'm not anti-AI — I use it to organize my own brain dumps into an outline. But when you let it write the content, you get exactly what everyone else already sounds like. Led Zeppelin became Kingdom Come became Greta Van Fleet. Cinderella became Girl School. The copy is never as good as the original, and eventually the audience notices. Which brings me to a phrase I have to credit to YouTuber Aprillynne Alter, because she said it better than I could: protect your intuition. When you let AI do all your thinking, you never actually process the information — and you lose your gut instinct for what your audience needs. That's exactly why I watched every single Dolly Parton video myself for last week's episode instead of asking AI to summarize them. I wanted that information in my head, not just in the output. Cheating off the smart kid might get you the grade. It won't get you the understanding. Own Your Audience — Don't Rent It From a Platform I had a great conversation with email marketing expert Paul Gowder about this. I moved my main marketing list from Kit (formerly ConvertKit) over to Substack, and while my subscriber count is actually growing there, I can see in my stats that it's not driving nearly as much traffic to my website. Paul's question stopped me: " What do platforms do once they get popular enough? They change the rules." TikTok, Facebook, YouTube — every one of them eventually limits your reach to your own audience unless you pay up. Email doesn't have an algorithm. Those are people who raised their hand and said "I want more." I'd rather have a 40% open rate on my newsletter than a meaningless "view" on YouTube. And I export my list every single month just in case, because platforms can turn on you fast — there was a parenting podcast that got pulled off YouTube with zero warning, appealed to an AI system, got denied by that same AI, and only got reinstated after Podnews' James Cridland made it a public story. You don't want your show's survival to depend on someone shaming a platform into doing the right thing. Audit Your Subscriptions — You're Probably Bleeding Money My buddy Ralph Estep Jr. — "the content creator's accountant" — gave the keynote, and his advice was simple: go look at your podcast's checkbook. So I did. In five minutes I found I'd been paying $57 a month for an SEO mastermind I hadn't attended in ages, plus $10 a month for an email address I don't even use anymore. Close to $100 a month, gone, just from things I forgot to cancel. This is exactly why you want a separate bank account for your podcast — every charge in there is tied to something you're using for the show, and it makes the leaks obvious. If you need a separate account I use both Sofi and Acorns. Don't Copy the Gear. Be You. One more story from my talk. We all think if we buy the same mic or use the same host as someone successful, we'll get their results. It's not the gear. The band Extreme had guitarist Nuno Bettencourt, who idolized Eddie Van Halen his whole career — and finally got to play Eddie's actual rig, in front of Eddie. He was sure he'd finally sound like his hero. Instead, he said it was "so horrible," because he just sounded like himself. Same thing happened in early podcasting — we all bought the same expensive mic because we wanted to sound like a famous podcaster. Lean into being you. You're already very good at it. Bonus: Sometimes "Remarkable" Means Remarkably Bad A tiny, ultra-low-budget Chinese film (reportedly made for around $200 by a mother and son on an iPhone) got pulled from theaters and mocked online as one of the worst movies ever. The memes were brutal. And because everyone was talking about it, curiosity took over — it ended up making an estimated $9.3 million. Remarkable works both ways. Quick Update on Episode 1049 In episode 1049, I told you Spotify and YouTube signed onto a shared industry definition of what counts as a "view" or a "play." Well, weeks later, Spotify rolled out a button that lets listeners skip ads entirely, and YouTube quietly changed what counts as a view again — now just moving your mouse over a thumbnail can register as one. Mark your calendar: in a month or two, expect YouTube to brag about some absurd new view count and hope everyone forgot they moved the goalposts. These are the partners we're all supposed to shake hands and build agreements with. Thanks to Empowered Podcasting Conference Big thanks to Mark Ronick, Rich, and Jason for putting on another great Empowered Podcasting Conference, and to everyone I got to hang out with in Charlotte. Head to schoolofpodcasting.com and use the coupon code LISTENER for a monthly, quarterly, or yearly subscription — backed by a 30-day money-back guarantee. You'll get access to the courses, the community, and coaching. And if you want to catch every episode, follow the show at schoolofpodcasting.com/follow. Research Links Empowered Podcasting Conference SOFI: Join Checking and Savings | You’ve been invited! Acorns Banking - Earn Interest, Teach Your Children about Finances Why No One Makes "Original" Videos Anymore Newsletters Part 2: How to Start a Newsletter Without Losing You… Want More Downloads? Ditch Social Media for Newsletters! Aprilynne Alter - YouTube A $200 Chinese Movie Just Became the Most Profitable Film in History Gone with the Wind Rant - Building a Better Dave Mentioned in this episode: Question of the Month: Constructive and Deconstructive Feedback This month we are talking feefdback. What is the most constructive or deconstructive (or both) piece of feedback you've received. If you haven't asked for feedback, why not? I need your answer by September 25th (late entries won't be accepted) go to www.schoolofpodcasting.com/question and be sure to mention your show and your website address so I can link to it in the show notes. Question of the Month Live Appearances I loved connecting with my audience. Here are the next events I will be at: November 11: Podindy.com (use the coupon code SOP) February 23-26, 2027: National Religious Broadcasters nrb.org I'd love to speak at your event. Go to schoolofpodcasting.com/contact Where Will I Be? Podpage Email Alerts Podpage just launched a feature called Episode Alerts. It automatically emails your subscribers the moment a new episode goes live — no third-party email tool needed. When you publish, Podpage sends the email, links listeners straight to the episode, routes replies to your own inbox, and handles unsubscribes automatically. They also run every email address through validation and monitor bounces/spam complaints to protect your sender reputation. It's not meant to replace a full newsletter platform — no drip campaigns or segmentation — just a simple "hey, new episode's up" notification. It's available for Pro and Elite users, with monthly sending caps of 500 emails on Pro and 5,000 on Elite. For more information see https://www.podpage.com/updates/introducing-episode-alerts/ Podpage Get Some Feedback On Your Show “Want honest, helpful feedback on your podcast? At the School of Podcasting, we host ‘Listening Parties’ where members share short clips and get constructive, encouraging critiques from fellow podcasters and myself. It’s a safe, supportive way to hear what’s working, fix what’s not, and make your show stronger fast.” School of Podcasting