Service Design Show

It’s the one thing they didn't teach in design school...We spend years learning how to understand what drives our users, map out complex journeys, and deliver useful service prototypes. But when it comes time to sit down with business stakeholders, compliance teams, or yes even legal departments? That’s when the friction sets in.For this episode, we're joined by Belén Tello, who has a very interesting take on how we can overcome this struggle. As the Head of Design for the largest bank in Peru, Belén leads a massive team of over 150 designers. As you might imagine, because they operate in the highly regulated financial sector, they are constantly in negotiations with the rest of the business.Over the years, Belen has experienced firsthand that even the most talented design professionals often freeze up when talking to their business partners. To our own demise, we often retreat to our comfort zones, simply handing over the work and letting the business decide whether it's "good or not". Deep down, we sometimes feel like the business folks just know more than we do (not the case!).To fix this confidence gap, Belén started doing something quite radical, at least for design teams.Before a big stakeholder meeting, she runs "role play" sessions with her team. Yes, almost like lawyers preparing for a mock trial! They sit down and strategize. What do you want to say here? Who are your strongest stakeholders? Do you need me to step in and ask a specific question so you can explain your rationale?Add to that that she's been helping her team learn to speak the "common language" of the bank. And that language? It's numbers and data, obviously.As you'll hear Belén argues that we already do the hard work of gathering qualitative and quantitative insights, but we frequently fail to actually bring that data to the table in a convincing way.When you stop arguing based on subjective perception and start negotiating with facts, everything changes. You move away from being seen as just an "add-on" to the process and finally become a true strategic partner.So if you've ever felt that imposter syndrome kick in during a big meeting, this episode is pretty much a masterclass in building your confidence and growing your influence.As you listen to the episode, I’d love for you to reflect on your own work. How often are you actively translating your insights into a language the business understands? And what would help you to do that more often?Enjoy the conversation and keep making a positive impact!Be well, ~ Marc--- [ 1. GUIDE ] --- 00:00 Welcome to Episode 24805:00 Banking in Peru: Education over digital tools 09:00 The danger of designing only for the capital city 17:30 Negotiating with Legal and Compliance 21:00 Using data to find a common business language 23:00 Why designers struggle to speak up in business 27:00 Prepping for stakeholders like a mock trial 28:45 Finding internal sponsors who understand design 33:30 Quantifying design's impact on the business 36:15 Redesigning 200+ physical branches 41:00 Moving from transactional to relational models 45:30 Connecting with rural users 51:15 Using design's systemic view as an unfair advantage 55:30 Why listening is a designer's true superpower 58:00 Positioning design strategically 1:00:30 Closing thoughts --- [ 2. LINKS ] --- https://www.linkedin.com/in/belen-tello-91028731/ --- [ 3. CIRCLE ] --- Join our private community for in-house service design professionals. ⁠https://servicedesignshow.com/circle--- [4. FIND THE SHOW ON] ---Youtube ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/248-youtubeSpotify ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/248-spotifyApple ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/248-appleSnipd ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/248-snipd

Are we being left behind...Let's think about this for a moment.Architects have AutoCAD. Finance folks have Excel. Sales teams have Salesforce. The list goes on.But what do we as service design professionals have? If we're a bit cynical, you could say that often it’s a wall of sticky notes (that the cleaners throw away at night).This brings up a deep and often unspoken insecurity in our field. Could it be that our work is seen as "fluffy" or "invisible" because we lack the "hard" tools that other departments have? That is the provocative question Maxe van Heeswijk brought to the Circle community recently. She challenged us to think about whether having "our own software" would help us claim our territory and be taken more seriously by stakeholders.But to which extent can a tool be the answer to our problems?Will Sharples joined the conversation with a different take. He argues that stakeholders don't actually care about our process or our "proper" service design tools, they just want their problems solved.So in this episode of Inside Service Design, we explore this tension between wanting to be "seen" as experts and the messy reality of getting work done in-house.This conversation is packed with spicy topics like:Whether having a dedicated tool makes you more legitimate, or does it just create new silos? Why our most important work is often the hardest to measure (and get budget for).A brutal method for stripping away busy work to focus on the assets that actually tell a story.And why you are "always selling" the value of service design, even years after you’ve been hired.So, if you’ve ever felt like you’re doing important work... that nobody sees, this episode is for you.What do you feel is the service design tool at the moment? Do we even have one?Let me know, I’m really curious to hear your take!Be well, ~ Marc--- [ 1. GUIDE ] --- 00:00 Welcome to December Round Up01:00 Meet the Guests 04:00 From Physical Engineering to Digital Services 06:30 From Philosophy & Advertising to SD 10:15 Balancing Financial Goals vs. Trust 15:15 Securing Long-Term Funding 18:00 Why Patience is a Superpower 21:45 Thought Experiment26:30 Do We Need Professional Software?35:00 Is Design Too Democratized 44:15 Relationship Building is Slow Farming51:00 Pragmatism vs. The Design Bibles52:45 The Hidden Skill55:45 Navigating Company Politics59:30 Wrap-Up --- [ 2. LINKS ] --- https://www.linkedin.com/in/maxevanheeswijk/https://www.linkedin.com/in/will-sharples-85a40580/ --- [ 3. CIRCLE ] --- If you're an in-house service design professional and want to learn from the stories of your peers, take a look at the Circle, it might just be the thing you're looking for.Join our private community for in-house service design professionals:⁠https://servicedesignshow.com/circle--- [4. FIND THE SHOW ON] ---Youtube ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/inside-service-design-09-youtubeSpotify ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/inside-service-design-09-spotifyApple ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/inside-service-design-09-appleSnipd ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/inside-service-design-09-snipd

If you look at the current job market, you might notice something strange... The words "service design" seem to be slowly disappearing from job titles. Does that mean our field is shrinking, or worse, becoming obsolete? Well, according to our guest, Giulia Di Gregorio, that's definitely not the case. If anything, the opposite is true. Giulia argues that while the titles might be vanishing, the practice is actually spreading. Service design is everywhere now; it's just hiding under different names. But this "diversification" creates a new challenge. If everyone has a different job title, where do you find your professional peers? Where's that safe space where you can get together to commiserate, find inspiration, and learn from each other? That's what Giulia and a few folks were thinking as well. But instead of just thinking about it they rolled up their sleeves and decided to revive Service Design Drinks Milan. This didn't become just another meetup; it became a "pirate version" of a community. And it’s been a pretty successful one.In this conversation, we explore what it looks like to run a community that's driven by volunteers, has no hierarchy, and is governed by the energy people actually have to give. We also talk about building "synergies" with other communities instead of acting like isolated islands. And we dig into why the best way to scale might be through small, independent nodes across the world rather than one big centralized network. So if you’ve been feeling a bit "homeless" in your service design role lately, this is a great conversation about reclaiming your identity and connecting with your tribe. What stuck with me is the idea that when a project starts feeling like "work," you might be heading in the wrong direction and should reconsider your options. Something to think about both in our professional context as well as in our passion projects. Enjoy the conversation and keep making a positive impact!~ Marc--- [ 1. GUIDE ] --- 00:00 Welcome to Episode 24707:30 Flat Hierarchies & Freedom09:30 Global Nodes vs. Centralized Networks13:30 The Toolkit Takeover17:45 Managing by Time23:15 Pirates vs. The Navy27:30 The Cost of Being Brave31:45 The Un-conferenced Model36:30 Turning Points: From Branding to COVID43:00 Learning Effortless Leadership48:00 How to Start Your Own Pirate Node55:30 Question to ponder on --- [ 2. LINKS ] --- https://www.linkedin.com/in/giulialogodigregorio/https://www.linkedin.com/company/service-design-drinks-milanhttps://creativemornings.com/cities/mil --- [ 3. CIRCLE ] --- Join our private community for in-house service design professionals. ⁠https://servicedesignshow.com/circle[4. FIND THE SHOW ON]Youtube ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/247-youtubeSpotify ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/247-spotifyApple ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/247-appleSnipd ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/247-snipd

A few months ago I finally hit a major milestone...After years of putting it off, I finally started taking golf lessons.Jasper, my coach (or "pro" as they say in the golf world), has been helping me develop a proper swing. But being me, I just can't help but look at Jasper through a service design lens.What is he actually selling me? Or better yet: what am I actually buying?Right now, I pay by the hour. That buys me Jasper’s time and a bit of grass to practice on. But what if I didn’t pay for the service, which is just time well saved, but rather for the outcome?What if Jasper promised to take me from someone who barely knows how to hold a club to being a confident, competent golfer? Because in the end, that’s truly the identity shift I’m actually looking for.Just think about how much that proposition would change the dynamics, not just for me, but for Jasper’s entire business model. When that offer is on the table, why would I ever settle for a coach selling me "practice time" (a commodity) when I could invest in the transformation I actually desire?This shift toward "transformations" as an economic offering isn't new.It was already described in the industry defining book The Experience Economy back in 1999.We’ve been lucky enough to have Joe Pine, the book’s co-author, on the Show twice before. Now, he’s back.It’s been 27 years since he published the book that influenced so many of us, and he has just published the long-awaited follow-up titled, you guessed it, The Transformation Economy.In this episode, we sit down to chat about what this shift means for us as service design professionals and what it means for the future of business. I’m fairly certain this is the very first podcast where Joe discusses the new book, so we’ve got a true exclusive on our hands.So will this be the next chapter for our field? Listen to the episode to find out!As you listen to the conversation, I’d love for you to think about your own projects. Are you designing for "time well spent," or are you ready to guide your customers through a real identity shift?Enjoy the conversation and keep making a positive impact!Be well,~ Marc--- [ 1. GUIDE ] --- 00:00 Welcome to Episode 24604:45 Why the book is still relevant06:15 Progression of Economic Value11:00 Defining economic offerings13:00 Birth of the Transformation Economy17:30 Experience vs. Transformation20:30 Focusing on the "Aspirant"22:00 Time Saved vs. Time Well Spent25:00 Experience design examples27:00 Novelty and social bonding31:15 Investment for time32:30 Turning experiences into change34:30 Service vs. Experience design37:30 Moving to transformations38:30 The power of intentionality40:45 Using reflection to add value43:30 Changing your identity44:45 Goal: Human flourishing47:30 What it means to flourish49:30 Satisfaction vs. improvement50:45 The drive for better51:30 Designing for transformation54:00 Transformative learning56:30 The Golf Coach story01:00:15 The new book release01:01:00 Key takeaway from Joe Pine01:02:45 Final thoughts --- [ 2. LINKS ] --- LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/joepine/Website - https://strategichorizons.comBuy the book now --- [ 3. CIRCLE ] --- Join our private community for in-house service design professionals. ⁠https://servicedesignshow.com/circle[4. FIND THE SHOW ON]Youtube ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/246-youtubeSpotify ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/246-spotifyApple ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/246-appleSnipd ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/246-snipd

Imagine a world where you can simply look at your journey model and ask it why... Why, for example, is our customer churn spiking this quarter? How close are we to that reality?I invited my good friend ​Jochem van der Veer​, CEO of TheyDo, back onto the show to find out. It’s become a bit of a tradition to start the year with Jochem, looking back at our past predictions and setting the stage for what’s next in the world of Journey Management.Not so long ago, "Journey Management" was really just an emerging term. Fast forward to today, and I think it's fair to say that the conversation has shifted entirely. We're seeing organizations big and small adopt this practice as a framework that drives real business decisions. In last year's episode, Jochem predicted that by now we’d be able to ask our journeys "Why?" and get instant (and meaningful) answers. In this conversation, we discuss how the technology has arrived and why "Journey Anarchy" is the new hurdle we have to clear.Next, we play a round of "Objection Bingo" where we address the most common roadblocks we hear every day that stand in the way of wider adoption of journey management. From "we don't have the data" to the classic "It’s too expensive". And of course, Jochem shares some practical strategies to help you overcome these roadblocks when you encounter them.Finally, Jochem makes some spicy predictions for 2026. Like the emergence of a completely new role in the CX space. So, if you want to stay one step ahead and hear where our field is heading, this is the conversation for you.I would love to know: how do you feel about the state of journey management heading into 2026? A) Mostly "meh" B) Excited! C) Something else...Leave a comment (if you're on Spotify).Be well, ~ Marc--- [ 1. GUIDE ] --- 00:00 Welcome to Episode 24505:30 Revisiting 2025 Predictions10:00 The One Question Most Marketers Forget to Ask12:45 Role of Human Judgment vs. AI Clues14:30 4-Step Journey Framework for 202617:00 Why Journey Mapping is "Dead"21:15 #1 Reason Companies Fail at Implementation24:45 The "Journey Anarchy" Crisis28:00 improving decision making31:00 How Siloed Teams Kill Revenue38:30:00 Another Objection: "It's Too Expensive"42:30 Objection Bingo: Flipping the Script on Stakeholder Pushback46:15 Wildcard: AI Agents vs. Simple Chatbowildcard: AI48:45 Credit Card/Budget Reality Check53:00 Predictions for 202654:15 Shift from Efficiency Cuts to Innovation Growth57:00 Why "Operationalizing Empathy" is the New Competitive Edge58:00 Other Challenges to Watch for in 202659:30 Near Real-Time Journey Monitoring1:03:00 The 10 Million Dollar Problem1:05:00 Connect with Jochem --- [ 2. LINKS ] --- https://www.linkedin.com/in/jochemvanderveerThe Experience Edge Podcast - https://open.spotify.com/show/4M2BsaT4jC5Oz54eyek0SZhttps://www.theydo.com/ --- [ 3. CIRCLE ] --- Join our private community for in-house service design professionals. ⁠https://servicedesignshow.com/circle[4. FIND THE SHOW ON]Youtube ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/245-youtubeSpotify ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/245-spotifyApple ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/245-appleSnipd ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/245-snipd