Service Design Show

If you look at the current job market, you might notice something strange... The words "service design" seem to be slowly disappearing from job titles. Does that mean our field is shrinking, or worse, becoming obsolete? Well, according to our guest, Giulia Di Gregorio, that's definitely not the case. If anything, the opposite is true. Giulia argues that while the titles might be vanishing, the practice is actually spreading. Service design is everywhere now; it's just hiding under different names. But this "diversification" creates a new challenge. If everyone has a different job title, where do you find your professional peers? Where's that safe space where you can get together to commiserate, find inspiration, and learn from each other? That's what Giulia and a few folks were thinking as well. But instead of just thinking about it they rolled up their sleeves and decided to revive Service Design Drinks Milan. This didn't become just another meetup; it became a "pirate version" of a community. And it’s been a pretty successful one.In this conversation, we explore what it looks like to run a community that's driven by volunteers, has no hierarchy, and is governed by the energy people actually have to give. We also talk about building "synergies" with other communities instead of acting like isolated islands. And we dig into why the best way to scale might be through small, independent nodes across the world rather than one big centralized network. So if you’ve been feeling a bit "homeless" in your service design role lately, this is a great conversation about reclaiming your identity and connecting with your tribe. What stuck with me is the idea that when a project starts feeling like "work," you might be heading in the wrong direction and should reconsider your options. Something to think about both in our professional context as well as in our passion projects. Enjoy the conversation and keep making a positive impact!~ Marc--- [ 1. GUIDE ] --- 00:00 Welcome to Episode 24707:30 Flat Hierarchies & Freedom09:30 Global Nodes vs. Centralized Networks13:30 The Toolkit Takeover17:45 Managing by Time23:15 Pirates vs. The Navy27:30 The Cost of Being Brave31:45 The Un-conferenced Model36:30 Turning Points: From Branding to COVID43:00 Learning Effortless Leadership48:00 How to Start Your Own Pirate Node55:30 Question to ponder on --- [ 2. LINKS ] --- https://www.linkedin.com/in/giulialogodigregorio/https://www.linkedin.com/company/service-design-drinks-milanhttps://creativemornings.com/cities/mil --- [ 3. CIRCLE ] --- Join our private community for in-house service design professionals. ⁠https://servicedesignshow.com/circle[4. FIND THE SHOW ON]Youtube ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/247-youtubeSpotify ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/247-spotifyApple ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/247-appleSnipd ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/247-snipd

A few months ago I finally hit a major milestone...After years of putting it off, I finally started taking golf lessons.Jasper, my coach (or "pro" as they say in the golf world), has been helping me develop a proper swing. But being me, I just can't help but look at Jasper through a service design lens.What is he actually selling me? Or better yet: what am I actually buying?Right now, I pay by the hour. That buys me Jasper’s time and a bit of grass to practice on. But what if I didn’t pay for the service, which is just time well saved, but rather for the outcome?What if Jasper promised to take me from someone who barely knows how to hold a club to being a confident, competent golfer? Because in the end, that’s truly the identity shift I’m actually looking for.Just think about how much that proposition would change the dynamics, not just for me, but for Jasper’s entire business model. When that offer is on the table, why would I ever settle for a coach selling me "practice time" (a commodity) when I could invest in the transformation I actually desire?This shift toward "transformations" as an economic offering isn't new.It was already described in the industry defining book The Experience Economy back in 1999.We’ve been lucky enough to have Joe Pine, the book’s co-author, on the Show twice before. Now, he’s back.It’s been 27 years since he published the book that influenced so many of us, and he has just published the long-awaited follow-up titled, you guessed it, The Transformation Economy.In this episode, we sit down to chat about what this shift means for us as service design professionals and what it means for the future of business. I’m fairly certain this is the very first podcast where Joe discusses the new book, so we’ve got a true exclusive on our hands.So will this be the next chapter for our field? Listen to the episode to find out!As you listen to the conversation, I’d love for you to think about your own projects. Are you designing for "time well spent," or are you ready to guide your customers through a real identity shift?Enjoy the conversation and keep making a positive impact!Be well,~ Marc--- [ 1. GUIDE ] --- 00:00 Welcome to Episode 24604:45 Why the book is still relevant06:15 Progression of Economic Value11:00 Defining economic offerings13:00 Birth of the Transformation Economy17:30 Experience vs. Transformation20:30 Focusing on the "Aspirant"22:00 Time Saved vs. Time Well Spent25:00 Experience design examples27:00 Novelty and social bonding31:15 Investment for time32:30 Turning experiences into change34:30 Service vs. Experience design37:30 Moving to transformations38:30 The power of intentionality40:45 Using reflection to add value43:30 Changing your identity44:45 Goal: Human flourishing47:30 What it means to flourish49:30 Satisfaction vs. improvement50:45 The drive for better51:30 Designing for transformation54:00 Transformative learning56:30 The Golf Coach story01:00:15 The new book release01:01:00 Key takeaway from Joe Pine01:02:45 Final thoughts --- [ 2. LINKS ] --- LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/joepine/Website - https://strategichorizons.comBuy the book now --- [ 3. CIRCLE ] --- Join our private community for in-house service design professionals. ⁠https://servicedesignshow.com/circle[4. FIND THE SHOW ON]Youtube ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/246-youtubeSpotify ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/246-spotifyApple ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/246-appleSnipd ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/246-snipd

Imagine a world where you can simply look at your journey model and ask it why... Why, for example, is our customer churn spiking this quarter? How close are we to that reality?I invited my good friend ​Jochem van der Veer​, CEO of TheyDo, back onto the show to find out. It’s become a bit of a tradition to start the year with Jochem, looking back at our past predictions and setting the stage for what’s next in the world of Journey Management.Not so long ago, "Journey Management" was really just an emerging term. Fast forward to today, and I think it's fair to say that the conversation has shifted entirely. We're seeing organizations big and small adopt this practice as a framework that drives real business decisions. In last year's episode, Jochem predicted that by now we’d be able to ask our journeys "Why?" and get instant (and meaningful) answers. In this conversation, we discuss how the technology has arrived and why "Journey Anarchy" is the new hurdle we have to clear.Next, we play a round of "Objection Bingo" where we address the most common roadblocks we hear every day that stand in the way of wider adoption of journey management. From "we don't have the data" to the classic "It’s too expensive". And of course, Jochem shares some practical strategies to help you overcome these roadblocks when you encounter them.Finally, Jochem makes some spicy predictions for 2026. Like the emergence of a completely new role in the CX space. So, if you want to stay one step ahead and hear where our field is heading, this is the conversation for you.I would love to know: how do you feel about the state of journey management heading into 2026? A) Mostly "meh" B) Excited! C) Something else...Leave a comment (if you're on Spotify).Be well, ~ Marc--- [ 1. GUIDE ] --- 00:00 Welcome to Episode 24505:30 Revisiting 2025 Predictions10:00 The One Question Most Marketers Forget to Ask12:45 Role of Human Judgment vs. AI Clues14:30 4-Step Journey Framework for 202617:00 Why Journey Mapping is "Dead"21:15 #1 Reason Companies Fail at Implementation24:45 The "Journey Anarchy" Crisis28:00 improving decision making31:00 How Siloed Teams Kill Revenue38:30:00 Another Objection: "It's Too Expensive"42:30 Objection Bingo: Flipping the Script on Stakeholder Pushback46:15 Wildcard: AI Agents vs. Simple Chatbowildcard: AI48:45 Credit Card/Budget Reality Check53:00 Predictions for 202654:15 Shift from Efficiency Cuts to Innovation Growth57:00 Why "Operationalizing Empathy" is the New Competitive Edge58:00 Other Challenges to Watch for in 202659:30 Near Real-Time Journey Monitoring1:03:00 The 10 Million Dollar Problem1:05:00 Connect with Jochem --- [ 2. LINKS ] --- https://www.linkedin.com/in/jochemvanderveerThe Experience Edge Podcast - https://open.spotify.com/show/4M2BsaT4jC5Oz54eyek0SZhttps://www.theydo.com/ --- [ 3. CIRCLE ] --- Join our private community for in-house service design professionals. ⁠https://servicedesignshow.com/circle[4. FIND THE SHOW ON]Youtube ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/245-youtubeSpotify ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/245-spotifyApple ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/245-appleSnipd ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/245-snipd

Sorry, but I have to say it...We are optimizing our way to boredom.Measure everything, test every variation, and optimize the customer journey until it’s "perfect". That seems to be the mantra of modern business today.But in this first episode of 2026, our guest ​Kendra Shimmell​ throws a big wrench in this machinery.Kendra argues that while things like A/B testing validate what works right now, they often come at a steep cost. Because if we rely solely on reacting to quantitative data to make small, incremental improvements, we eventually, you guessed it, optimize our way to mediocrity and boredom.We lose the soul in our services.Kendra shares a painful example of this phenomenon in action: social media algorithms. You click on a cool backpack once, and the system thinks it has you figured out. Suddenly, your entire feed is just backpacks. A lot of backpacks.The algorithm is "optimized," sure. But it has stripped away all the serendipity, turning a place of discovery into a repetitive, boring experience. As Kendra put it, just because you can keep a user clicking doesn't mean you aren't exhausting them. So, the question is: Why do organizations default to this? Why are we so focused on squeezing out efficiency rather than exploring new avenues?When I asked Kendra, her answer was blunt: "Greed, Fear, and Confusion." Ouch.The greed to squeeze out the last 1% of revenue. The fear that if they try something new, they won't find product-market fit again. And the confusion that comes from ignoring the fact that humans are wildly irrational beings driven by feelings, not spreadsheets.This conversation is a wake-up call to stop treating our customers like subjects in a scientific experiment and start treating them as people to co-create with.And if your organization isn't ready to hear that? Well, Kendra has some advice on how to be a little "sneaky" to get the work done anyway!The conversation ends with a question that pairs perfectly with a long walk, somewhere where you can let a little serendipity back into your day: "When, where, and how is it most important to be human?".Happy New Year and keep making a positive impact!Be well, ~ Marc--- [ 1. GUIDE ] --- 00:00 Welcome to Episode 24404:30 Why We Need Co-Creation Over Experimentation08:30 The Twitch Lesson 14:30 Why Excessive Optimization Leads to "Beige"16:03 Social Media & the Algorithm23:45 Backpack Rabbit Hole25:30 3 Forces of Stagnation32:30 Funding Analogous Thinking35:00 Creating Space for Change38:30 The Compliance Pilot Strategy44:15 MVW (Minimum Viable Working Model)45:45 Permission vs. Action48:45 Moments of irrationality: taxes vs buying52:45 Doing Things Better vs. Doing Better Things56:15 Living Inside the Algorithm58:15 Why We Must Learn to be Bored Again1:01:45 The Role of the "Human in the Loop" in the Age of AI1:04:15 Case Study: Designing for Distance1:06:15 Question to ponder --- [ 2. LINKS ] --- https://www.linkedin.com/in/kendrashimmell/ --- [ 3. CIRCLE ] --- Join our private community for in-house service design professionals. ⁠https://servicedesignshow.com/circle--- [4. FIND THE SHOW ON] ---Youtube ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/244-youtubeSpotify ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/244-spotifyApple ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/244-appleSnipd ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/244-snipd

We need to talk about the "intern" sitting on your desktop...Come on, you know the one. Sure, they are fast, very eager to please, and can process data at lightning speeds. But they also have a bad habit of hallucinating facts and making things up just to make you happy.Of course, I’m talking about AI.It is fair to say that we are past the initial "wow" phase of generative AI. Now, for us service design professionals, the real question is: How do we actually hire, train, and trust this new digital colleague?That is the focus of this episode of our Inside Service Design series.We sit down for a chat with two brilliant professionals: Jessica Dugan and Judith Buhmann.They share a grounded, hype-free look at how they are integrating AI into their own existing workflows. Not as a replacement for our work, but as a "Junior Associate" who needs some (sometimes a lot) management.To make this real, Jess walks us through the framework she uses for building her own custom AI agents. She explains how to define their "persona," scope their tasks, and curate their knowledge base so they can actually be useful (and safe).And Judith shares a critical perspective on why we can’t fully trust AI yet. We explore why we need to treat AI as an "unreliable narrator" especially when working with vulnerable groups.So if you are feeling a bit somewhat by the pressure to "use AI" but aren't sure how to do it responsibly, this conversation has some key insights you don't want to miss.Here's a question: If you had to give your current AI tools a "performance" review, what rating would you give them? A) Employee of the month B) Promising intern (needs supervision) C) Chaos agent (fires random info at me). Let me know, I’m really curious where we are all at!Be well, ~ Marc--- [ 1. GUIDE ] --- 00:00 Welcome to the November Round Up04:00 Jess's journey into service desig09:45 Judith's challenge12:30 Designing for the employee experience and internal systems14:00 The "Pros" of in-house service design15:30 The necessity of patience and deep knowledge for in-house success18:30 Judith topic19:00 Jess topic: Building (and trusting) your own AI agent23:00 Why we cannot fully trust any AI27:00 Scoping the AI agent's role and understanding user need29:00 Designing the "Human" side: Setting personality and tone for your agent33:45 Accessibility: Is it actually hard to build your own agent?35:30 Human-in-the-loop: Regulation and ensuring data accuracy40:00 Why transparency matters more than just "trust" 47:00 Getting organizational buy-in for AI tools54:45 Markers of success: How service blueprints live on after the workshop56:30 Closing thoughts and Question to Ponder --- [ 2. LINKS ] --- https://www.linkedin.com/in/judithbuhmann/https://www.linkedin.com/in/jess-dugan/ --- [ 3. CIRCLE ] --- Join our private community for in-house service design professionals. ⁠https://servicedesignshow.com/circle--- [4. FIND THE SHOW ON] ---Youtube ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/inside-service-design-08-youtubeSpotify ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/inside-service-design-08-spotifyApple ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/inside-service-design-08-appleSnipd ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/inside-service-design-08-snipd